[OFF] I've been thinking about you a lot!

[marcos.placona]

Hi guys, I used the "fruity" title to draw your attention, as I've just built a small tool that will probably help everybody here.

It's a greasemonkey user defined script that will resize all the code boxes (those wrapped between

).

I've seen some people complaining about this in the past, and recently some [URL="http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9832"]more people[/URL] also complaining about it.

It's a vary simple user script, but helps a lot, as you won't need to scroll through code anymore, as it'll fully display the code (still with the nice formatting) on the appropriate box.

In the future I'll make some changes to it, so it shows a button that you can click to expand/collapse the box (as soon as I have more time)

The basic idea is:[LIST=1]
[*]Install [URL="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748"]Greasemonkey[/URL] (Just for FireFox users and probably Opera Users)
[*]Install my [URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_code.user.js"]user script[/URL][/LIST]And enjoy it. It's only configured to work on this forums, so if you feel that you need the same functionality for other forums using vBulletin System, just let me know, and I'll gladly change it for you.

If you find any bugs (I've tested and couldn't see anything wrong) just let me know.

I've been helped a lot in this forum, and thought I could help some people with the best of my knowledges (web development). :rolleyes:

Well I guess this is it, mods feel free to delete/change this topic in case it goes against any of the rules, but I just intend to help some people out here.

===============================================
[COLOR=Red][B]UPDATE:
[/B][COLOR=Black]
I've just worked on a much improved version (0.2) that let's you toggle between show and hide full code. It's really handy, and that way you can just display the codes you want in full length.

It's also much more user friendly.

The steps to update to version 0.2 (if you already have the first version installed) are:
[/COLOR][/COLOR][LIST=1]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Right click on the smiley monkey at the right side of your browser[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Select the option manage user scripts[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Select the option [B]Bigger_Code [/B]that is displayed on the right hand side of the screen that has just opened.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Click the button [B]uninstall[/B][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Close the screen[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Click on this [URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_code.user.js"]URL[/URL][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Install the new script and refresh your page[/COLOR][/COLOR][/LIST]If you don't have the first version installed, just follow this steps:[LIST=1]
[*]Install [URL="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748"]Greasemonkey[/URL] if not already installed (Just for FireFox users and probably Opera Users)
[*]Install my [URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_code.user.js"]user script[/URL][/LIST]===============================================
[COLOR=Red][B]UPDATE 2:[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR=Black]Ok, so I decided to follow Hippy's [/COLOR]ideas, I'm providing the scripts for [B]version 1 (automatic resize)[/B] and [B]version 2 (click & toggle just the ones you want)[/B]

I've also used better names, so you can install both versions and just enable/disable the one you like.

N.B: Both versions won't work together.

When enabling / disabling, a refresh on the page is necessary, so the selected script takes place.

I'd suggest you remove the old version, by following my guide on the first update here and install the new versions, as the name has changed now.

[URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_code_v0.1.user.js"]Version 1[/URL]

[URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_code_v0.2.user.js"]Version 2[/URL]

===============================================
[B][COLOR=Red]UPDATE 3:[/COLOR][/B]

[COLOR=Black]So here's another one. Now, it removes the nasty grey wasted space on the right and on the left, giving you even more Picaxe Forum :D

The script name is Bigger Table V0.1 using the same standard of the other versions, and can also be used together with Bigger Code V1 or V2. Instructions for installation are still the same. 

[URL="http://www.placona.co.uk/blog/enclosures/bigger_table.user.js"]Version 1[/URL]

[B]DONATION:
[/B][/COLOR]If you feel like this plug-in is all you've ever wanted and are feeling like donating, you can always send it to my paypal account marcos[dot]placona[at]gmail[dot]com, and the money will all be converted into picaxes :D

 

[westaust55]

Better code windows

Hi Marcos,

Sounds like a wonderful advancement.

I run both IE and Mozilla (at different locations) so will not always be able to take advantage of it.

 

[marcos.placona]

Cool, tell me what you think when you've tested it.

 

[hippy]

Excellent. It works for me on Firefox 2.0.0.14 - I can probably live with the smiley monkey face in the status bar

Now how about getting rid of the left and right margins on the forum which wastes all that screen space - Is there anyway to do that ?

Also ( welcome to the world where demanding users never let you sleep ) ... is it possible to limit the width of the code window to the width of normal posts ? At present, the width of the box is stretched off to the right for a post which includes code. Maybe it's not a problem for people with larger than 600x800 screens.

 

[marcos.placona]

Hippy, I'll do some tests and see what I can get. I'm working on a much better version of which right now, and am just trying to fix a small bug with greasemonkey.

I'll be back with more till next week.

 

[BCJKiwi]

I'm sure that is a great piece of work Marcos and I certainly don't want to belittle your valuable contribution(s) but I use IE7 (and don't intend to change so please everyone don't flame me).

It would seem to me that Technical / vBulletin should be sorting out these issues of presentation.

The wasted space down the sides, and the narrow width

 panel have both been raised before more than once but there is still no action.
If the [quote] panel can be the right width then the [code] panel must be able to be made the right width also.
 
How about sorting out these annoyances at source!

 

[marcos.placona]

Hi BCJKiwi,

I agree with you, but think we can't just wait for things to happen. I've been using vBulletin (as a user elsewhere) for a while, and one time when in contact with the forum admin, I asked about some changes that would be good.

He simply told me it wasn't very easy to change things on vBulletin, and this kind of configuration (code block) were not present on the admin, and that you could just enable/disable it, but not change it's style.

I'm sure Technical would be happy to change those things if they were possible, but I have the slight impression that rev-ed doesn't have anyone capable enough to open third party code (written in cr*p PHP) and make changes like this. Not that they should have anyway, as they are not focused on website development, neither forum development, and I think that's why they opted for the "Black Box" that vBulletin is, because basically you just install it, and maintain it's content.

I'd be happy to help rev-ed in case they needed to change stuff like that. My extension is proved to be working, and I'm now working on a much better version of it. I could integrate this extension into the website, and it would work cross browser.

Well anyway, I think people should use what they like, and you BCJKiwi,shouldn't be flammed for using IE7 (which is a horrible browser in my opinion ), but maybe have the two of them, and use FF just for the forum which could bring you some advantages, as being able to use my extensions

 

[ValueAdd]

Hi,

I have been predominantly an IE7 user but also have Mozilla.
Installed greasemonkey and Marco's script but how do I activate?

No sign of any new icon or menu item in Mozilla that I have found.

EDIT:

Ahh think I have found out . . . .
Its automatic. I see looking at other threads with that the "code" window is now much bigger -= wider and longer

 

[marcos.placona]

Glad to know it works for you mate!

 

[BCJKiwi]

If when posting code, the quote tags are used instead of the code tags,
[quote] and [/quote]
then the panel will be full width and full length.

However all program layout/indenting is not preserved!

 

[westaust55]

Hi Marcos,
Installed it this morning and works well. Certainly better then the rather small window we look at with standard forum window.

I like the greater width

personal thought on window height:
great but a max height limit for the code window might have been good as allowing the window to go the length of the program code is not greatly better than pasting code straight into the main window.
As I say personal thought, but something like say 600 pixels high would suit most screens and still allow some room to possibly see the original "covering" text with question or what ever.

In summary a great advancement !

 

[marcos.placona]

HOT UPDATES LISTED ON THE FIRST POST

 

[hippy]

Personally I think it's a big step backwards.

This is a typical developing software problem; you improve something for one group of people but it makes things worse for those who were happy with what there was.

I liked the way the previous script worked, it meant I didn't have to do anything and scrolling down the page with a long program wasn't a problem for me. Now if I want to see the code I have to click on Toggle, which is an inconvenience I don't want. True, it's an improvement on default forum behaviour but not as good as the previous script was IMO.

I can appreciate others didn't like that, so the challenge is in providing the two ways of working, this and the previous.

I can see two ways round the issue; either make the Toggle flag apply to all code sections and make its setting persistent across page changes and browser shutdowns and restarts, or provide separate scripts which handle the two differing behaviours.

I'd suggest going with the later to start with, until you've worked out how to have persistent settings. Even then, multiple scripts may be a best solution anyway. It's not a problem having multiple scripts and I'd suggest adding separate scripts for separate functionality changes. So if you do find a way to get rid of the left and right borders, create a separate script to do that rather than adding it to the code box formatting script. Some people might actually like the borders ( I think I might if I had a wider screen ) but don't like the code formatting.

I'd also recommend that your scripts should have a version number, ie "Bigger Code 002". That way I could have disabled "Bigger Code 001" installed "Bigger Code 002" and if I didn't like it I could uninstall 002 and re-enable 001. As it is the original ( better IMO ) script has been completely replaced so I have no way to go back to what it was. I'd also suggest slightly better naming; "PICAXE Forum - Longer Code 002" and "PICAXE Forum - Toggle Code Size 002", and one day "PICAXE Forum - Border Control 001". That way it's clear what the script does and all scripts related to this forum should end up grouped together in Grease Monkey. It will also allow you to produce similar separate scripts for other web forums in the future. Those who want code display altering on the PICAXE forum might not want that on another or vice-versa. As a developer it will be near impossible to second guess what 'insane choices' an end-user wants to have, best is to allow them to do anything they want. Provide the means and they are happy, dictate how they work and some won't be.

Also, keep all copies of previous versions of the scripts on your website for download, that way if you accidentally introduce a bug, people find an esoteric problem or simply don't like the new version they can easily roll-back to something which worked for them. Far better than "like it or lump it". As it is I'm stuck for now with new functionality I don't like as much as the earlier with no way to go back to what it was, so you get this long whinging missive instead of an "Excellent. I prefer the other version, but thanks for providing both options".

Don't get me wrong, I still think you've done a superb implementation job, just slightly messed up on upgrade strategy. I think we need a Forum section where such scripts can be placed and be easily located by those who want to use them.

 

[marcos.placona]

I liked your ideas Hippy. Please refer to the first post to see the updates, and install v1 and v2

I think we need a Forum section where such scripts can be placed and be easily located by those who want to use them

That'd be really good. Can you create this area?

 

[hippy]

Yippee! I'm happy again

My comments of course apply to anyone writing software, and maybe one day even Microsoft and other big players may take note.

I cannot create new forums, only Rev-Ed can. One of the Finished User Project sections may be the best place for such scripts for now ( "Communications" ? ). Not perfect but they have lower-volume traffic and stuff which shouldn't be there gets moved out to keep the noise level down.

 

[BCJKiwi]

Have long advocated a forum section for the Forum itself - so far it's forum (fallen) on deaf ears!

 

[marcos.placona]

Yippee! I'm happy again

My comments of course apply to anyone writing software, and maybe one day even Microsoft and other big players may take note.

I cannot create new forums, only Rev-Ed can. One of the Finished User Project sections may be the best place for such scripts for now ( "Communications" ? ). Not perfect but they have lower-volume traffic and stuff which shouldn't be there gets moved out to keep the noise level down.

Glad to see you're a Happy Hippy again

I'll see what Technical thinks about this post.

 

[sedeap]

Greasemonkey + Marcos script

A VERY interesting development...
Sure I'm taking a look over that...
Probabily you receive mails from me in the near future, Marcos, so search your mail box (even the spambox or unwanted box, Because (I've not a clue about) sometimes my mails landing over that areas).

and Surely, you do a GREAT JOB !

 

[marcos.placona]

Glad you liked it. I didn't get anything up to now, but you can always send me PM's in case you're not sure about sending emails.

In regards to creating a new area for the tools I developed, I think it's worth mention that I spoke to technical about that, and this is his answer:

Thanks for your message.

Although some people do not like the size of the code box, many others, including us, do like it at the existing size! It is just a matter of personal taste. Therefore we have no plans to change it from the default settings at present.

Regards

Technical Support
__________________
PICAXE Technical Support

Well, not much to say after that, just that I'll try to keep this thread alive.

 

[marcos.placona]

Just putting this thread up in case anybody else is interested

 

[BCJKiwi]

I really don't like Technical's response to this one. I can accept the depth of the box is a valid option to keep the posts easy to scroll through but why wouldn't you want to see all the width without having to scroll backward and forward?

Perhaps they just expect us to copy and paste everything we want to read into something else - Notepad/Programming editor - but why?

 

[marcos.placona]

Yes, I don't like this response either, and really think that there should be something like a poll created here, so the users would decide what's best.

I think everybody (or almost) agrees that viewing code in those small block really s*x.

 

[Dippy]

Whats the size of the current code window? About 80w by 10 high?

I've just checked two other fora that I use. One is 80w by 15 high. The other has no scroll bars and can go on forever which I don't like. Horizontally it autowraps after 100 chars and vertically ad-nauseum, tedious.
I'd like to see a touch larger, maybe to reflect typical widths these days, but then I guess you've got to account for old people who persist in using Windows 1.1 and a 14" moni-ah!

If there was a poll I'd like 90 to 100 width and 20 to 25 lines height before scrolling.
But the status quo doesn't force me into hysterics.

 

[BCJKiwi]

I know we have been over this before but;

A browser window should resize automatically to the the width/resolution of the user's screen. So how much/how large the text etc is, or should be, a user choice in relation to screen setup. Changing the screen resolution on my system shows this website does resize as expected (but still has the wasted space).

Here we have IMHO two illogical irrational decisions by whoever set up this website in that there is;
wasted space down both sides of the screen for no good reason at all,
and,
the code window is reduced in width for no good reason.

Technical,
1. Please address these two abritrary and nonsensical decisions if at all possible.
2. Please advise if it is not possible so we can close the subject,
3. If it is possible, please make the changes to sensible ones so again we can close the subject, or at least give us the rationale so we can understand why it won't be changed.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation.

 

[marcos.placona]

Guys, there's something here that I'm not really sure if I follow you. When you talk about the wasted space, are you talking about the dark grey borders on each side of the screen?

Here they have about 10px each (I'm on a 19inch screen using 1280x1024). If that's the problem, I can try to change the master table on the forum to become 100% (would that make you guys happy?)

Well let me know if I'm on the right path.

 

[BCJKiwi]

I have an LG 18" screen at 1280 x 1024. The grey borders are both 10mm wide which equates to 1280 / 360mm = 3.55 pixels per mm = 71 pixels or 5.55% of the screen width or 11 character of text.

Also have an LG 22" widescreen. The 10mm wide grey borders are still 10mm wide on this screen but everything else is much wider.

The entire first paragraph of this post fits in one line on the widescreen but wraps after the '=' on the 18" screen.

 

[sedeap]

Wasted Space

As I understand the "wasted space" is the space from
<----<<< HERE to left border of the monitor screen...

And from HERE >>>---->
​

to right border of the monitor screen
​

Probably can make the post username in one line and then the rest of space can be used to post content.

But is only my opinion... of course...

Salu2 ( Regards)

 

[Dippy]

Isn't life short enough?

Aesthetically, I quite like the 10mm grey borders.
The biggest waste is the user details box with the username in 20pt (just a guess) writing.
marcos.placona takes up 2 inches on my screen.

Sedeap, you are clairvoyant!

 

[marcos.placona]

I have an LG 18" screen at 1280 x 1024. The grey borders are both 10mm wide which equates to 1280 / 360mm = 3.55 pixels per mm = 71 pixels or 5.55% of the screen width or 11 character of text.

Also have an LG 22" widescreen. The 10mm wide grey borders are still 10mm wide on this screen but everything else is much wider.

The entire first paragraph of this post fits in one line on the widescreen but wraps after the '=' on the 18" screen.

Well, now I'm conerned. I can't see that. BCJKiwi would you please be so kind and put a screenshot in here so I can see what you see?

Cheers

 

[sedeap]

Thanks Dippy ( But I still envy the BJCKiwi Crystal ball...LOL)

Ok Marcos... here is the screenshot with wasted space tagged in RED

Pic Here

Do you see it now?

Salu2 (regards)

 

[marcos.placona]

Ok ..ok, I see it. I was just not looking with the same perspective. This is what happens when you're focused on another part of the problem.

I'll see what I can do.

 

[Rookie]

Espacio desperdiciado

Oh yeah!
Wasted space against legibility and Esthetic design...

Fierce battle there...

 

[hippy]

I'm happy with the username area and would personally consider only the area outside the main frame ( the white then grey border ) as wasted space. At 800x600 on my Monitor that adds up to 4cm wasted of 25cm. I have to admit that it feels worse because of my colour settings which ignores page colours; it doesn't feel as bad with colours on but the two 10mm grey borders are a waste.

I much prefer having the username area to the left and if the message text area does get too wide it can make it harder to read. I'd be happy with just the grey borders removed.

 

[BCJKiwi]

So,
Like I said in post #24, get rid of the grey borders and make the code window as wide as the quote window!

Still no response from Technical!

 

[hippy]

Looking at the page source one finds this ...

/* vBulletin 3 CSS For Style 'orangeblack' (styleid: 2) */
body
{
  background: #575151;
  color: #ffffff;
  font: 10pt verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
  margin: 0px 35px 0px 35px;

Remove the 'margin' line or change to "margin: 0px 0px 0px 0px;" and goodbye grey borders.

No idea how to do that in GreaseMonkey.

 

[marcos.placona]

Voila! I'll see if I can come up with something

 

[BCJKiwi]

It is also interesting to note that in the Forum FAQ section when you drill all the way down to the vbCode sub-section, the example for the use of the code tags which produce the code window shows the window the same width as it is for the quote example immediately below.

From this one could infer that the code window is SUPPOSED to be the same width as the quote window!

 

[marcos.placona]

Ok, check first post for the update number 3. It's still a small step but will make many people happy

 

[Dippy]

That is odd.

I've just looked at another Forum usng Vbulletin, and it too has a much wider quote window than code window.
Maybe technical can't change it, maybe it's a Vbulletin thing.
Anyway, there are a lot more things in life to worry about.

 

[marcos.placona]

That is odd.

I've just looked at another Forum usng Vbulletin, and it too has a much wider quote window than code window.
Maybe technical can't change it, maybe it's a Vbulletin thing.
Anyway, there are a lot more things in life to worry about.

It is indeed. Of course it can be changed, but you must know how to work on this stuff. So.... just stick to my plug-ins