X2 parts
- Thread starter PaioX
- Start date
leftyretro
New Member
X2 = vaporware
Maybe never, rumored over two plus years now it seems but still no official release date. Must be some problem as it is certainly not for lack of demand Lefty
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
it does make one wonder about what the actaul problem could be,
if it's technical eg coding problem, why not ask for help/ideas, i know i'd put in a few hours if not days with no expectation of anything in return, i imagine there are a few other people thinking the same thing themselves,
if it's a economic problem/strategy, as in the old "don't release anything new until we've made enough money out the old stuff first then i could hardly blame them
if it's technical eg coding problem, why not ask for help/ideas, i know i'd put in a few hours if not days with no expectation of anything in return, i imagine there are a few other people thinking the same thing themselves,
if it's a economic problem/strategy, as in the old "don't release anything new until we've made enough money out the old stuff first then i could hardly blame them
"pushing a product that's not ready is unprofessional"
- people said that a million times to Billy Boy.
Why worry?
I appreciate the conjecturisationability of this product gets the blood vessels going.
But life's too short
How come Rev-Ed haven't asked for your help DPG ?
Maybe they thought you'd left the flock?
- people said that a million times to Billy Boy.
Why worry?
I appreciate the conjecturisationability of this product gets the blood vessels going.
But life's too short
How come Rev-Ed haven't asked for your help DPG ?
Maybe they thought you'd left the flock?
Is it just the 28X2 and 40X2 we're waiting for?
Do we know what the advances are? They can do bracketed formulii can't they?
Still frustrating though that we (not me) could have the answers to move the technology forward but can't due to the modern legality ruled culture.
Do we know what the advances are? They can do bracketed formulii can't they?
Legal safety. Imagine all the worst case scenarios they can think of for that situation. If you were to help, you'd have to know the rest of the code and could sell it (not suggesting you would), the chip could malfunction causing thousands of chips to dangerously overheat, and their only defense for this would be "we got some code off someone we knew in a forum". Again your code would probably be perfect down to the last detail I'm sure, but I think legally it would be a businessman's worst nightmare.
Still frustrating though that we (not me) could have the answers to move the technology forward but can't due to the modern legality ruled culture.
westaust55
Moderator
Past Information (August 2008) from Technical/Rev Ed was that the bracketed formula for X1 AND X2 parts was a matter of some coding in the Programme Editor, NOT the PICAXE chip firmware.
The current Rev 6.6 Manuals make reference to PE V5.3.0, so possibly when that arrives, brackets will also be available
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demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
why on earth would they want my help?, i'm just a downunder convict
however yes i have left the "flock" in a sense
i am compelled to say if rev-ed were to tomorrow come and ask for my help and wisdom,my ideas would be along the lines of:
firstly i wouldn't bother going any further with the single chip idea and make the x1's the last in the line of some good products,
i would then start on another line of picaxe's based on the pic32's pre mounted on stamp style pcbs with mini usb connector on one end and the classic stereo socket on the other
i would also ditch the interpreter idea and go for a bootloader and compiler combo which would offer a much greater execution speed
that is what i'm doing (the last two paragraphs), i have no idea what rev-ed will do
at the end of the day there is no denying that there are hobbyists and students out there who have mastered the art of programming pics and would like to progress onto higher end pics but can't simply due to the packaging types and lack the capability/funds to do so i think ignoring this market isn't a wise idea,
Are there 2 DPGs?
One Mr.Happy and one Mr.Grumpy?
Post#5 "i know i'd put in a few hours if not days with no expectation of anything in return,"
- sounds like an offer.
and then
Post#9 "why on earth would they want my help?, " + rest of post
- a big no-way-dude put down.
"i would also ditch the interpreter idea and go for a bootloader and compiler combo which would offer a much greater execution speed
..that is what i'm doing"
- I seem to remember you announcing this a couple of years back??
So, who will be quicker to Market? Rev-Ed + X2 , or, DPG + compiler for bootloaded chips?
Watch this space....
PS. You can already buy bootloaded chips and compilers. What will be the USP with yours DPG? I ask this seriously, not taking the Pee. What will be the costs and what will the support be like?
Most pros use blank PICs plus mature compilers on Dev or custom boards. Or already have programmers and it takes 10 seconds to chuck in a bootloader.
But, in any event, I wish you the very best with the project.
One Mr.Happy and one Mr.Grumpy?
Post#5 "i know i'd put in a few hours if not days with no expectation of anything in return,"
- sounds like an offer.
and then
Post#9 "why on earth would they want my help?, " + rest of post
- a big no-way-dude put down.
"i would also ditch the interpreter idea and go for a bootloader and compiler combo which would offer a much greater execution speed
..that is what i'm doing"
- I seem to remember you announcing this a couple of years back??
So, who will be quicker to Market? Rev-Ed + X2 , or, DPG + compiler for bootloaded chips?
Watch this space....
PS. You can already buy bootloaded chips and compilers. What will be the USP with yours DPG? I ask this seriously, not taking the Pee. What will be the costs and what will the support be like?
Most pros use blank PICs plus mature compilers on Dev or custom boards. Or already have programmers and it takes 10 seconds to chuck in a bootloader.
But, in any event, I wish you the very best with the project.
demonicpicaxeguy
Senior Member
the only thing special about my compiler is it relies more on the user actaully knowing somthing about the target chip heaven forbid somone somwhere will actaully read a datasheet!!!!!, <insert devilish laughter here>
as opposed to pre generated code eg "adcin" and there is no prewritten software routines "serout" however adding stuff like that is nice and simple, you can add lines of pic asm anywhere you want ,even mixed in with the basic code
there are a total of 5 instructions
if ... then .... else ... endif
let
goto
call
dim
and 3 compiler directives
include:c:\..... etc
eeprom:c:\..... etc
lib:c:\.....etc
currently i'm testing somthing similar with a pic32mx440f512h when i've got time which lately is rare
ultimatly i'd rather be targetting higher end pics because there isn't much out there and far as basic compilers go
Yes, reading Data Sheets can be a problem. A newbie usually goes cross-threaded when first faced with a PIC Data Sheet . I was getting counselling for weeks after my first attempt
Interesting....
So,5 commands and the user has to write his/her own routines for everything?
So, people would have to do all their own (for example) Serin and 16 bit maths and everything manually?
May as well write all in ASM surely?
Not for the novice then.
What market are you aiming at? Pros will use C, PASCAL or high spec BASIC compilers. The main point of a compiler, I thought, was to speed up development?
I think Rev-Ed can breath again.
I must admit in the compilers I use I sometimes roll-my-own, co-incidentally always for ADC work.
I know of 4 very good and reputable BASIC compilers that allow asm statements to be mixed with BASIC just about anywhere. One of which is almost 'open source', where you can roll-your-own commands and do some very clever/efficient variable handling and structures. Quite 'C'.
I know of only one BASIC compiler, however, which can compile for dsPICs.
And none (not that I've looked recently) for PIC32.
I'm not poo-pooing you DPG, I'm impressed, but I'm just not sure of the target audience and where it fits in. I can see the only target currently can be PIC32s as all the others are well covered with full compilers.
(2 Onlookers: If anyone is interested, you have to READ the PIC DATA SHEETs for those too! If you can't be bothered to read then don't bother with compilers!!)
You have some serious competition.
Anyway, enough of this frivolity.
Good luck, keep up the good work and all the best.
Interesting....
So,5 commands and the user has to write his/her own routines for everything?
So, people would have to do all their own (for example) Serin and 16 bit maths and everything manually?
May as well write all in ASM surely?
Not for the novice then.
What market are you aiming at? Pros will use C, PASCAL or high spec BASIC compilers. The main point of a compiler, I thought, was to speed up development?
I think Rev-Ed can breath again.
I must admit in the compilers I use I sometimes roll-my-own, co-incidentally always for ADC work.
I know of 4 very good and reputable BASIC compilers that allow asm statements to be mixed with BASIC just about anywhere. One of which is almost 'open source', where you can roll-your-own commands and do some very clever/efficient variable handling and structures. Quite 'C'.
I know of only one BASIC compiler, however, which can compile for dsPICs.
And none (not that I've looked recently) for PIC32.
I'm not poo-pooing you DPG, I'm impressed, but I'm just not sure of the target audience and where it fits in. I can see the only target currently can be PIC32s as all the others are well covered with full compilers.
(2 Onlookers: If anyone is interested, you have to READ the PIC DATA SHEETs for those too! If you can't be bothered to read then don't bother with compilers!!)
You have some serious competition.
Anyway, enough of this frivolity.
Good luck, keep up the good work and all the best.
inglewoodpete
Senior Member
I would love the 28x2 and 40x2 to be available too. The promised flexibility of I/O pins would be a great bonus when doing hardware design.
However on the other hand, the issues that have arisen since the release of the 28x1/40x1 indicate that there are a lot of software/hardware combinations that require testing with new products of this complexity. "Getting it right" is a very important part of releasing a new product. It must be embarrassing and costly to have to revise firmware after thousands of chips have been sold.
However on the other hand, the issues that have arisen since the release of the 28x1/40x1 indicate that there are a lot of software/hardware combinations that require testing with new products of this complexity. "Getting it right" is a very important part of releasing a new product. It must be embarrassing and costly to have to revise firmware after thousands of chips have been sold.
leftyretro
New Member
I have to admit that the long delay of the X2 product lead me to look around some and I've been doing almost all my new projects on the Arduino platform.
It's super cheap to get started ($20-30), it's open source both hardware and software, so there is lots of vendors developing products, no more vendor lock in for updates and improvements. They also have a very active and helpful users forum. So if you are willing to venture into learning C (I resisted for years) it's a very nice platform. Their IDE ( runs on Windows/Mac/Linux) is at version 12 and their hardware has evolved to utilize the newer AVR chips as they come available.
That is not to say I have left the Picaxe family altogether. I still think it's a great product and the 8M has to be the best bang for buck on small projects and tasks going. This is a great forum and I will continue to participate in it.
Lefty
It's super cheap to get started ($20-30), it's open source both hardware and software, so there is lots of vendors developing products, no more vendor lock in for updates and improvements. They also have a very active and helpful users forum. So if you are willing to venture into learning C (I resisted for years) it's a very nice platform. Their IDE ( runs on Windows/Mac/Linux) is at version 12 and their hardware has evolved to utilize the newer AVR chips as they come available.
That is not to say I have left the Picaxe family altogether. I still think it's a great product and the 8M has to be the best bang for buck on small projects and tasks going. This is a great forum and I will continue to participate in it.
Lefty
Yes, thorough developing and testing always takes time.
Ironing out takes a while.
Hopefully its just around the corner, as it has been on the cards for over 2 years now - maybe nearer 3?
I seriously hope it comes out soon. It could be a great product.
The somewhat overlong delay will inevitabley cause some lambs to leave the flock, especially serious hobbyist looking for more oomph and fed up with waiting.
But, we've had the PICAXE vs Others debate so many times it causes me to fa....
... sorry, dropped off for a second.
If I were a newbie or an educationalist I would always consider the total package of product PLUS support PLUS cost.
Anyway, bottom line: it ain't here , but it might be here next week (!), so there is no point worrying/fretting/bothering right now
Ironing out takes a while.
Hopefully its just around the corner, as it has been on the cards for over 2 years now - maybe nearer 3?
I seriously hope it comes out soon. It could be a great product.
The somewhat overlong delay will inevitabley cause some lambs to leave the flock, especially serious hobbyist looking for more oomph and fed up with waiting.
But, we've had the PICAXE vs Others debate so many times it causes me to fa....
... sorry, dropped off for a second.
If I were a newbie or an educationalist I would always consider the total package of product PLUS support PLUS cost.
Anyway, bottom line: it ain't here , but it might be here next week (!), so there is no point worrying/fretting/bothering right now
SilentScreamer
Senior Member
2 months
leftyretro
New Member
Never mind the silicon based X2 saga, as a carbon based X4 is already going strong in certain parts of Australia. Some call it XXXX or "fourex", & I believe this darling has been bringing a smile to mens lips for decades! I could web link to X4 data sheets, but considerable translation may be required, as most info is coded in an rustic localised form of Queens English-even many Australians (& certainly us Kiwis) become confused.
However my limited hands on X4 experiences have shown it seemingly very PICAXE friendly,with familiar serial sequencing features. Although use in vehicle linked mechanisms incurs the usual warning, performance at elevated temperatures was most satisfactory, especially when X4 core cooling was first employed.
However my limited hands on X4 experiences have shown it seemingly very PICAXE friendly,with familiar serial sequencing features. Although use in vehicle linked mechanisms incurs the usual warning, performance at elevated temperatures was most satisfactory, especially when X4 core cooling was first employed.
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BeanieBots
Moderator
Something makes me think Stan might have had a few too many 4X's.
westaust55
Moderator
mebbe he has been the cause of a few of those long white clouds
Is it just me that cant find the right thread, or is there none discussing the new features in X2 yet ?
I have skimmed trough the manual and found some of the new commands/features (probaly not complete)
2(4?) program slots
program memory can be updated from external eeprom (a way to issue updates to end users?)
New commands
adcsetup : Enable adc pins
booti2c : Update program slot from eeprom
doze : low power sleep
hibernate : Sleep until interrupt
hintsetup : Hardware interrupt
pauseus : pause for microseconds
peeksfr / pokesfr
readfirmware : current chip firmware
readrevision : read current (user) software version
serrxd : use serialin in own program
there are probaly more news ...
I have skimmed trough the manual and found some of the new commands/features (probaly not complete)
2(4?) program slots
program memory can be updated from external eeprom (a way to issue updates to end users?)
New commands
adcsetup : Enable adc pins
booti2c : Update program slot from eeprom
doze : low power sleep
hibernate : Sleep until interrupt
hintsetup : Hardware interrupt
pauseus : pause for microseconds
peeksfr / pokesfr
readfirmware : current chip firmware
readrevision : read current (user) software version
serrxd : use serialin in own program
there are probaly more news ...
Somebody posted a picture which was useful.
I hope it was the right one as I've based a whole new design around it.
Say, I have an idea; WHY NOT wait until it is launched?
1) Then you/we will have ALL the details.
2) No need to spend 50000000 pages speculating, guessing and drooling.
3) It'll give you more time to produce your list of WIBNIs.
Maybe Westy has some information?
He must be BURSTING to tell us
I hope it was the right one as I've based a whole new design around it.
Say, I have an idea; WHY NOT wait until it is launched?
1) Then you/we will have ALL the details.
2) No need to spend 50000000 pages speculating, guessing and drooling.
3) It'll give you more time to produce your list of WIBNIs.
Maybe Westy has some information?
He must be BURSTING to tell us
westaust55
Moderator
I think you will find that the new rev 6.7 manuals cover all the extra commands for the X2 parts.
Once they are available and people using them (in abut 2 months time) then discussions will start
westaust55
Moderator
Nope!
As you should be aware (it has been in the manuals since Nov 2008):
As you should be aware (it has been in the manuals since Nov 2008):
But then the manuals also say:
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westaust55
Moderator
That's great Westy. So it is a bit like a Stamp really.
I wasn't here in Nov 2008.
I'm in 'Forum Mode' i.e. don't read the Manuals, just ask the Forum
But are looking at the PIC datasheets
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=88504
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True Meaning of 4X
Q:- Why is Queensland's favorite beer called 4X...
A:- Because Queenslanders cannot spell Beer!!!!
All flames cheeerfully fielded by this Brisbanite
Q:- Why is Queensland's favorite beer called 4X...
A:- Because Queenslanders cannot spell Beer!!!!
All flames cheeerfully fielded by this Brisbanite
Andrew Cowan
Senior Member
Ring tones seem to be the only feature better than the 18X.
A
edit: Oh, and cost...
A
edit: Oh, and cost...
westaust55
Moderator
and the 18X has such features as i2c comms which the 18M does not include
I know there is always a latest and greatest but its a pity picaxe haven't used the delay in the X2 launch to move to the 18F4553 (40pin) and 18F2553 (28pin) chips, slightly more ram and 12 bit ADCs. I've been using these exclusively programmed in C and they are both cheap and very powerful and the extra couple of bits on the ADC really makes a difference.
best regards
Peter
best regards
Peter
westaust55
Moderator
That would only further delay release of an X2 part while Rev Ed reconfigure and test with the alternate chips
Various people at various times have said "Why don't they use .....".
The list has included various 18Fs, 24Fs, 33Fs and a 555. Well, maybe not.
Let's be grateful that something new and faster will be with us soon eh
I'm just glad it's on it's way and the hugely interesting speculation can stop - until someone mentions X3s or X10.... which, according to WestAust, will be here in November.
(Sorry, I'm a couple of months early )
The list has included various 18Fs, 24Fs, 33Fs and a 555. Well, maybe not.
Let's be grateful that something new and faster will be with us soon eh
I'm just glad it's on it's way and the hugely interesting speculation can stop - until someone mentions X3s or X10.... which, according to WestAust, will be here in November.
(Sorry, I'm a couple of months early
)