Windows 10
- Thread starter pinkfoot
- Start date
binary1248
Senior Member
I was forced to Win 10 when my old Vista computer took a major meltdown (Power supply failed). But I like the new Windows, easy learning curve. No problems running Ver 5 or Ver 6 PicAxe software. (I use both)
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
I think the only real issue with Win 10 is in the Ts and Cs, and the fact that, by default, it sends all your personal data back to Microsoft, who then sell it on to generate revenue. Few usually wade through the terms and conditions before clicking "I agree" and installing the thing, but if you do take the time to look you will find the following paragraphs:
I'm of a generation where correspondence was always considered to be private unless the people corresponding agreed to making it public, which is probably why I find the way that everything personal is now up for sale a bit of an anathema.
You can partially turn some of this snooping off, but as others have proven that does not stop Win 10 from sending it back to Microsoft. By agreeing to use Win 10 you are agreeing to allow Microsoft to look at any data anywhere on your PC, whether it is related to their needs or not. Some may not care about that, in fact it seems that many people are more than happy to share every bit of data about themselves with anyone else, and if you're in that category then Win 10 is probably fine for you.
I'm of a generation where correspondence was always considered to be private unless the people corresponding agreed to making it public, which is probably why I find the way that everything personal is now up for sale a bit of an anathema.
Bill.b
Senior Member
Here is a link to a program were you can control mocrosoft's snooping (windows 10) and also Windows updates.
http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10/update
Bill
http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10/update
Bill
JimPerry
Senior Member
I upgraded one portable to 10 but use Classic shell to make it run like windows 7 http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/ 
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
I believe Microsoft are gradually moving towards a model where they fund the operating system from revenue generated by data collection and sale, rather than by selling a product licence. There were rumours that Microsoft were at one time looking at a leasing model, where you purchased the right to use the operating system for a specific period of time, then either renewed the "lease" or the system stopped working, but that was an idea that didn't go down well. Microsoft do have a problem in that they are selling a product in a market that now has "free" alternatives, and those "free" alternatives use an advertising and data collection based financial model, so it seems inevitable that they should look to do the same.
That is a good option, but as others have shown by using packet sniffing, data will still be sent back to Microsoft servers all the time, even with all the privacy options set and the maximum level of data protection applied using existing third party options. Win 10 is intrinsically designed to allow Microsoft free access to everything on your hard drive, and there doesn't seem to be much you can do to absolutely stop this. If you could stop all data transmission to Microsoft you'd arguably be in breach of the terms and conditions for Win 10, so Microsoft would be perfectly within their rights to disable it or order you to allow them access to your data. You can't even use disc encryption, as the operating system effectively has access to decrypt on the fly data, so bypassing any encryption.
You either accept that most popular operating systems behave like this (and as most probably know already lots of Android apps do exactly the same thing) or you accept the inconvenience of running a safe and private operating system and forego some of the capabilities offered by running a Microsoft (or Google) product. I don't know enough about Apple to judge whether they collect personal data in a similar way, maybe they do, maybe they don't. Most flavours of Linux are probably reasonably free from the risk of data snooping, though, but far from ideal for a lot of us that want to run applications that only work well under Windows.
My personal hope is that I can keep a Windows machine running for as long as possible and never have to switch to Win 10. If that plan fails then I'm hoping that Windows emulation on Linux will be good enough for me to be able to switch all my machines to run it. I do generally use Linux for some web browsing, but have a few applications that need Windows in order to work properly (i.e. they either don't work, or don't work fully, under WINE on Linux).
Me too, the level of snooping that Microsoft are engaging in is offensive.
There are of course those self rightious individuals who would maintain that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
There was a video blog I saw about this Windows 10 snooping and the blogger told a story about the Dutch being very festiduos in keeping records about religious ethnecity of its population. What could possibly be the problem about that, if your Jewish or Christian what have you to hide ? The Nazis found the records very useful when they invaded Holland and we know what happened to the Jews next.
Of course the real problem is not that Microsoft has access to all your data, but that the US government has. There is a remote possibility that Mr Trump could become American president, and taking account of his comments this week, would you be happy for him and his Government to have access to everyones data on their PCs ?
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
I wholeheartedly agree about the political angle. My sole concern is privacy, and all I read tends to make me mistrust Microsoft (and, to be fair, many other tech companies, like Google). A person whose reports I tend to place more weight on than those from Microsoft et al is Woody Leonhard on Infoworld. His views seem to be balanced and some of his followers seem to be insiders who understand more than most what is really going on. This entry about Win 10 "privacy" makes interesting reading, especially if you read down to the comments at the bottom, where people have specifically disabled snooping features and Microsoft appear to have covertly re-enabled them: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987022/microsoft-windows/windows-10-and-privacy-whom-should-you-trust.html This sort of behaviour doesn't build trust in a vendor, in my view.
You also might only think you are informed.
Mr Snowden had a lot to say about this stuff recently, you might have seen reports in the 'news' media about it.
In Europe there is serious concern that the safe harbour agreements which allow US companies to store data about EU citizens may not be legal, since it appears that US companies may be being forced to allow the US Government access to data on EU citizens.
Of course its just possible that Microsoft know that the US Government has access to all the stuff on a PC and the very obvious "we can access all your stuff" clause is a warning.
Its also interesting to note that the use of Windows 10 in its current guise might well be illegal in some circumstances.
In the EU there is a legal principle that you have to consent to your personnel data being shared and\or your data may only be shared in a reasonable way.
If you ring up a Holiday company to book a Holiday and they collect your personnel data on a Windows 10 desktop and your personnel data is then sent on to Microsoft, unless you have consented to your personnel data being shared with Microsoft, the Holiday company would appear to be in clear breach of the data protection laws.
In the EU there is a legal principle that you have to consent to your personnel data being shared and\or your data may only be shared in a reasonable way.
If you ring up a Holiday company to book a Holiday and they collect your personnel data on a Windows 10 desktop and your personnel data is then sent on to Microsoft, unless you have consented to your personnel data being shared with Microsoft, the Holiday company would appear to be in clear breach of the data protection laws.
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
Data protection is an interesting consequence for Microsoft (and other companies like Google) who sneakily gather personal data. Not one I'd thought of.
From my former employment I know for an indisputable fact that both our government and the US government have all Microsoft source code, by agreement. That agreement has been in existence for at least a decade, and is intended to ensure that governments can, if they wish, access data via any Microsoft product, exploiting any of the features or weaknesses in the code. In the UK the authorisation to use this capability used to be very tightly controlled, but since the advent of RIPA and the forthcoming removal of privacy rights that is in the pipeline that authorisation has become less onerous, I believe.
For those who are seriously concerned about personal privacy, then one of the more secure flavours of Linux is probably the only reliable and usable way to access any electronic media or connectivity. Even then care needs to be taken to disable the sneaky techniques used by web browsers and search engines to try and grab your personal data.
It's a crazy world where freedom of speech now means freedom for anyone to profit by any data they steal from you.
From my former employment I know for an indisputable fact that both our government and the US government have all Microsoft source code, by agreement. That agreement has been in existence for at least a decade, and is intended to ensure that governments can, if they wish, access data via any Microsoft product, exploiting any of the features or weaknesses in the code. In the UK the authorisation to use this capability used to be very tightly controlled, but since the advent of RIPA and the forthcoming removal of privacy rights that is in the pipeline that authorisation has become less onerous, I believe.
For those who are seriously concerned about personal privacy, then one of the more secure flavours of Linux is probably the only reliable and usable way to access any electronic media or connectivity. Even then care needs to be taken to disable the sneaky techniques used by web browsers and search engines to try and grab your personal data.
It's a crazy world where freedom of speech now means freedom for anyone to profit by any data they steal from you.
Data protection principles are all persuasive in the EU, good job too.
In the UK private individuals (using Windows 10) probably have little to worry about because of the section 36 exemption in the data protection act.
Companies or organizations however cannot claim a section 36 exemption.
techElder
Well-known member
Its always amazing to think that some folks think that passing a "law" will make something happen or not happen. It only limits the possible ways around that "law."
I could say much more, but I don't really think this is the appropriate forum for that kind of discussion.
I'm sticking with Windows 7 as long as I stuck with XP.
I could say much more, but I don't really think this is the appropriate forum for that kind of discussion.
I'm sticking with Windows 7 as long as I stuck with XP.
binary1248
Senior Member
I remember a SciFi story many years ago (And I do mean many) where Big Brother was watching every one. At the time it seemed a little preposterous, but now it has come to past.
inglewoodpete
Senior Member
Laws exist to prevent murder, rape and theft, too, but it doesn't seem to have stopped them from occurring.
techElder
Well-known member
Exactly what I mean. The Queen of England can stand before you and say, "Don't do that!" Guess what? You can still do that.
The last time there was a Queen of England was in 1707 I believe so I doubt she would be able to stand in front of you and say "Don't do that!"
I dont know what point it is you are trying to make, as its obvious to even the most ill informed that laws can be ignored.
Over in in the UK and Europe data protection laws are taken seriously and its an issue I have to confront on a regular basis in work. Just last week I had to refuse to acceed to a request to provide 'data' because to do so would have been a clear breach of our data protection laws.
Maybe its different out in the wilds of countries west of us here in Europe.
It very much does to you.
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I agree with those who are wary of the type and amount of data it is suggested that Windows 10 collects. Whilst it seems excessive, it is not entirely new. I had an argument with someone from MicroSoft regarding an 'essential security update' installed on my Windows XP machine which served only to contact MicroSoft HQ every time the PC was booted. This it turned out was used by MicroSoft to check that the copy of Windows was genuine. I pointed out that if my copy of Windows was genuine when I installed it, was genuine last month, genuine last week why wouldn't it be genuine today or tomorrow? Had I not had a Firewall installed to report on what I initially assumed to be a virus, I'd never have known, and MicroSoft wouldn't have admitted it either. Still, they insisted I'd signed (or ticked) the Ts&Cs so tough luck.
Next day I went out and bought a Mac.
Not that I don't think that the Mac OS isn't doing something similar, but they aren't quite so devious in how they do it.
Nearly all operating systems collect your data, mobile 'phones do, web browsers do, search engines do, email providers do, social networks do, Sky TV do, 'connected' TV sets do... [I will agree that there are certain specialist secure services that offer a do not track facility, but they are in the minority]
The so called 'Big Data' collected is highly valuable to advertisers and they are funding the free services we all seem to want or subsidising services that without this revenue stream could cost more or be of a lower quality.
While I'm not paranoid about this (I accept that in return for 'free' Gmail I'm going to have all those emails for *Male performance enhancers* read by Google before I do) I do sign out of any services as soon as I've finished using them. I'm also wary of typing anything or visiting any websites I wouldn't want to have shown to my dear departed Mother or Our Glorious Leader {insert name of your Head of State here}. As I never can be sure who might be reading them over my shoulder.
Next day I went out and bought a Mac.
Not that I don't think that the Mac OS isn't doing something similar, but they aren't quite so devious in how they do it.
Nearly all operating systems collect your data, mobile 'phones do, web browsers do, search engines do, email providers do, social networks do, Sky TV do, 'connected' TV sets do... [I will agree that there are certain specialist secure services that offer a do not track facility, but they are in the minority]
The so called 'Big Data' collected is highly valuable to advertisers and they are funding the free services we all seem to want or subsidising services that without this revenue stream could cost more or be of a lower quality.
While I'm not paranoid about this (I accept that in return for 'free' Gmail I'm going to have all those emails for *Male performance enhancers* read by Google before I do) I do sign out of any services as soon as I've finished using them. I'm also wary of typing anything or visiting any websites I wouldn't want to have shown to my dear departed Mother or Our Glorious Leader {insert name of your Head of State here}. As I never can be sure who might be reading them over my shoulder.