What is the minimum V level the 40X1 will reliably run on?

BrendanP

Senior Member
I have a 40X1 running on 2.34 Vs. I know this is well below the 3V level the manual states is needed.

The picaxe will take the download at this level or so it seems.

However Im getting intermittent problems which I can't pin down to a definite fault either hardware or software. Could it be that the part will run but not totally as it should at lower voltage levels such as Im using?

Im having problems with the hserin command both manual and auto background.
 

MartinM57

Moderator
I shamelessly borrow this from an AVR forum (whole thread at http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=58739) and it's about overclocking (which is occasionally discussed here) but if you substitute "under voltage" instead of "overclocking" some of it applies and I found it very thought provoking about going outside spec sheet values:

Code:
Every single parameter on the data sheet is tested. The chip is
clamped in an expensive temperature control rig, driven with a clock oscillator,
and every pin timing is tested to make sure it meet spec in all corners of
temperature/voltage/clock schmoo.

The short answer to: "What happens when I overlock?" is: YMMV.

You are off the data sheet. All guarantees are off. In addition to more heat,
the first thing that will go is pin timings. Your design may have enough margin
where that won't matter. Or maybe it won't matter on a cool day, but a hot
summer day it gets flakey. Or maybe your design works today, but won't after 
three years of aging. (Modern CMOS *does* slow down as it ages due to the
"hot electron" effect.) It may draw more supply current than spec. Or, maybe
only certain date codes work, but parts from marginal boats don't. Or maybe
it works with certain date codes of some other manufacturer's RAM chip if
they were made on a sweet day, but not marginal ones.

It may appear to work until you exercise one particular logic path that does
not make timing at the high clock speed but doesn't matter for common
operations. An example being the horde of idiots that overclock Intel Pentium
processors and say: "It boots Windows, therefore it works!" Clue #1: There 
is no floating point in the Windows boot code. Clue #2: Windows does not use
the newer instructions in the OS, because it is compiled to run on old
processors.

You do not have the ability to test the part the way the manufacturer does.

If you get your kicks by overclocking, go for it. But please don't sell it to a 
customer that expects a reliable system. And don't whine if it breaks. And 
don't brag to Old Farts(tm) about it, it won't impress us. Having said all that, 
if it just needs to hang together long enough to turn in a grade.... find a big 
honkin' heat sink -- power dissipation goes up with the cube of clock speed.
 
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Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
The 40X1 is rated down to 2V when using the internal resonator, but you will probably need to disable the BOD (disablebod command)
 

BrendanP

Senior Member
A big thank you to everyone who replied.

I can cross that off the list of possible sources of the fault. My GSM module runs on 3.6V. Ive got a reg that produces that. Problem is that the module takes logic signals from the host app (the picaxe) at a max of 3V. I used a couple of diodes in series to drop the voltage to 2.4V. I thought that might be problematic given that the manual talks about a min. of 3V. I removed one diode so I have it running on 3V now which should be fine given that technical say it will work at 2V. (Im using the xternal 8meg res).

There something odd happening with the hardware serin interrupt routine Im using to serin sms's.........
 

womai

Senior Member
I have a design where a 28X is running at 3.3V with external resonator (16 MHz). Everything works fine.

I tried to substitute with an 28X1 (which AFAIK is just a 40X1 chip in a smaller pincount package) - initially looked promising, chip seemed to run correctly, but in the end I had to give up because writing to the internal EEPROM was flaky - in about 25% of the cases garbarge would get written. No such issue with the 28X, or with the 28X1 at 5V, so I blame it on the high speed (16 MHz) combined with somewhat below-spec voltage.

Wolfgang
 

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
The 28X1 is rated down to 2V with internal resoantor, but 4.5V with external resonator.
Wolfgang - did you try switching to internal resonator before your write and then switching back external afterwards?
 

BCJKiwi

Senior Member
With the 28X1 and em16 with external resonator I can report the following;

1. It will download at low voltages (that's because it switches to 4MHz for the download - right Technical?)

2. It often starts at 4MHz if the voltage is anything around 4.25 or less - but sometimes it does start at 16MHz.

3. If started at 16Mhz on say 4.5V, it seems to keep running down to 3.5V (there is not a lot of load on it) but will switch back to 4MHz if reset while on low power.
 

BrendanP

Senior Member
I too have had some flaky results with the internal eeprom at the 3 V and a xternal res. Ill try switching to the internal for the write. Thanks Technical.
 
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