What is desired for proto and I/O boards?

J

jglenn

Senior Member
I am aware of the many boards out there, Rev-Ed, others, I use a couple from PH Anderson, in some model plane autopilot experiments, are kinda big for what I need, 18X for now.

My side micro company is considering a range of PICAXE units, but how to do it?

From the 08M to the X2 big ones, people need dc outputs, ac outputs, analog, digital in, filtered and clamped perhaps, frequency,
I2C, serial, USB, CAN, satellite :eek: etc. Trying to pick a useful configuration is difficult, then you have the form factor problem. Some people care about weight and size and others don't. Plus the power supply.

One idea is a "motherboard strip" that would accept a processor board, and
multiple, mix and match I/O boards. From my work so far, I prefer I2C, as it
allows almost infinite expansion with minimal lines. Just picking your brain, not
sure if a good idea..

Only around in evenings, USA time.
 
J

jglenn

Senior Member
The question is, to avoid making a one off custom pcb for your projects,
is it possible to have a family of protoboards that have a mixture of I/O, or
pluggable I/O modules to customize it? Most of the available ones just have 4 dc outputs, or just a kludge area. One version might have 8 digitals, 4 analogs,
another one 16 digitals and 8 analogs. A fully customizable one with small I/O
boards of different types could plug into a motherboard that has the PICAXE.

Just brainstorming here, if nothing happens, don't worry! I thought of this idea for me, and am wondering if anyone else would need it, or other ideas for a line
of boards to make projects easier.
 
B

BCJKiwi

Senior Member
JG
This question has been asked many times in many forms.

The general responses fall into the categories;
1. make a special each time
2. use vero/strip board or one of its variants
3. use wirewrap
4. make a lot of separate modules - PSU, input, output, Temp, LDR, LED, relay, keymatrix etc etc and plug them together as required
5. make general purpose boards with everything bar the kitchen sink on them.

Then there are numerous existing proto boards from many sources in addition to the two mentioned already such as:- KPIC, GadgetGangster, Kiwacan etc etc.
 
J

jglenn

Senior Member
Hmmm, thanks, I have never heard of those companies you mentioned, I bet
they do not sell in the USA. Was just assuming that 90% of typical apps use
analog and digital inputs/outputs, perhaps not correct.

How many people the world over do you think are building things with the
PICAXE chip?
 
M

Mycroft2152

Senior Member
JG,

You'll have you excuse many of the posters here for their regional knowledge, they tend relate only to whats happening "down under".

There's are many prototyping boards from companies north of the equator which the Ozzies seem to be oblivious of. I guess its human nature that you are most familiar with the vendors in your back yard.

Google is your friend on this one, it tends to igonore national boundaries.
 
M

manuka

Senior Member
Hey-that's a bit cheeky MyCroft, although you're quite right about Google! I've been importing electronic parts for nearly 50 years, & even as recently as the early '90s used to groan with envy when reading mags. stuffed with out of reach "up top" choices. Restrictive currency exchange & import duties once certainly made us think locally, but such is now NOT the case.

I'm sure I speak for other colonials in saying global electronic goodies are now well known & readily purchased (often admittedly in bulk). In fact our Asian proximity & Aus/NZ free trade agreements often mean Asian products are released here (for market testing etc) ahead of Europe/US. We're spoilt for choice!

I'll further teasingly add that nimble minds down-under,"free of old world mental & cultural baggage" (as my ex. UK dad used to say),may allow innovative applications to be run with! Take electric fence technology- developed pre WW2 by New Zealand inventor Bill Gallagher. Built from a car's ignition coil and a Meccano set, he first used the device to keep his horse from scratching itself against his car, before realising it's livestock "potential". His firm is still a world e-fence leader, although I guess the horse is -ahem- no longer "current".

Perhaps "horses for courses" also answers your prototype posting? Stan. (New Zealand)
 
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B

BCJKiwi

Senior Member
@ JG and Myc

GadgetGangster and KPIC are both available in the USA - KPIC originated in NZ but is now in USA.

These are not necessarily PICAXE specific but can be used for PICAXE.

Agree with Manuka, being 'Down Under' but of the world requires Kiwis (and Aussies and others) to be knowledgeable of what is happening in the UK, US etc else we could never get anything done!

After all, we did find PICAXE didn't we ;)
 
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J

jglenn

Senior Member
I will check them out. Guess will have to layout custom boards every time for my projects. Have ORCAD. Need to test the autorouter someday! :cool:
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
"Guess will have to layout custom boards every time for my projects"
+
"...are kinda big for what I need"

- these go together usually.

Until Rev-Ed launched their AXE091 the world cried out for a general purpose Dev board for PICAXE.
There were numerous and long threads on the subject, where everyone inlcuded their WIBNIs.
A couple of people had a go and posted their efforts.
I was never sure if they were touting or whether anything ever came of them.

But I guess you were considering a Mother/daughter board type building block system?
Where things are plug-in modularised?


Personally, I wouldn't seek general opinions. You'll get more opinions than you need :)
You could end up making dozens of different modules which would be expensive.
Some may sell well, others will be book-ends.
Unless you are feeling confident or you have an 'in' with a big retailer or education sector then I'd be cautious.

I would consider the most common areas, design them and make them. Then market them.
Designing by committee can be very slow. I really wouldn't consider volunteered replies on a Forum as Market Research.

Most PICAXErs on this Forum have a specific goal so a specific board is needed, so the more expensive GP board gets the heave-ho.
Many also like to get their hands dirty and sometimes spend weeks/months making something that costs a quid at a shop.
So if they can make a home made PCB using a home-made UV lightbox and use Mum's caserole dish for the etchant then they will , even if it takes a month - just to save spending a tenner on your board. Bless 'em :)

Maybe you should concentrate on the things that PICAXErs have trouble with e.g. thermocouples.
 
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inglewoodpete

Senior Member
Rather than produce another range of development boards (that will always fall short of the needs of your next project), you may want to look at what you have developed in the past and review your methods.

In may case, I can say that every project seems to have different needs. I recommend you breadboad the concepts first, then prototype using stripboard. Stripboard is readily available in Britain, Aust and NZ. With a market as large as the USA/Canada, it must be available there too.

Strip board has the advantage that you can modify the your circuit somewhat, should it be required.

I reserve making PCBs to the few occasions where I need to make many boards or the board needs to look good for a presentation or sale.

I have 2 Rev-Ed boards: the AXE092 (08M) often used in combo with a breadboad and the CHI030, which I rarely use due to the inaccessability of the 18X chip pins.
 
J

jglenn

Senior Member
Thanks Dippy and Pete. I did not realize this topic had been covered in the past. Have gotten a lot of good ideas from forums, serious market research I don't have the budget for, and I don't sell thru distributors, they want too big a cut. I was sort of considering a little PLC style thing, yes a motherboard with the chip, and cute, tiny (maybe an inch square) modules that plug in somehow.

Thermocouples? A long time ago I made some signal conditioners from scratch for those, in the old days, with opamps. There are chips out that do that now.
TC's are a bear, if you only need to go to 300F or so, a chip like the AD590 is the way to go, sends a current proportional to temp, good for long dist, that is converted by the a/d.

I knew this was a complex and probably unsolvable problem, but will still look at perhaps only TWO units, one for the 18X, and one for a top of the line PICAXE.
My current line of hobby boards is not selling well anymore, could be the economy here going down.

Another twist would be to design a custom module for each customer that needs it, with the stipulation that I could sell it to anyone too. Eventually I
would accumulate a wide variety of types. Dreaming again...:confused:
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
If you've got the time and cash then have a go.
Maybe this is how Velleman and others started their kit businesses.
If people don't dream then nothing gets done - as long as they don't dream for too long ;)

But, again, I certainly wouldn't use a brief thread as serious market research.

A motherboard and build-block modules sound good for education.
Maybe design the module so that it can be plugged into (some) existing project boards too?

Would you really use this modular approach for bespoke designs?
Well, I guess it depends on the app.
Certainly you will build up a pile of designs in your eGrimoire.

My first step would be to do a design and get a costing.
Price is up there at the top of the list.

I wish you luck. Sounds interesting. But don't give up the day job right now :)
 
B

BCJKiwi

Senior Member
Well it seems the KPIC product line is made by Kiwacan which now seems to have limited activity. Products I have used previously are no longer in their (now limited) range which does not seem to include anything PICAXE friendly.
 
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