Universal Experimenter Board

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rWAVE

Member
Recently, I had an enormously satisfying personal experience exposing for the first time some Special Ed. middle and high school students to the PICAXE during summer school.

I had expected my ongoing and untested boasts about being able to teach anyone to write their first PICAXE program within 10 minutes to finally be challenged. Although we only covered in a cursory way the commands HIGH, LOW, PAUSE and GOTO, I was very surprised how quickly these kids picked up the concepts and we spent most of our time controlling LEDs.

Discussions with the principal about an on-going, after-school program have me thinking about changes to my equipment setup, which consisted of notebook computers and pre-wired breadboards. These kids won't be able to handle breadboarding, so we will be focusing on programming. BUT, they did demonstrate their abilities to remove components, bend pins, improperly re-insert components and cables . . . AND . . . even remove the paper backing from the bottom of the breadboard, exposing the sticky tape. CLEARLY, not having kids of my own has left my own education lacking!

What I would like to do is buy / design a Universal Experimenter Board that combines the best of the currently available boards into a single, somewhat "kid proof" board that can be configured by staff for the day's activities.

Since I haven't found such a commercial product (my search has been less than exhaustive), I was wondering what you guys might recommend? I think what I want to include is:

Handle 08M, 14M, 18X, 20M or 28X1 via socket matrix
Power via wall-wart or batteries
Datalogging such as AXE110 with RTC and extra FRAM memory
LED / Switch Input such as AXE092
Motor Driver such as CHI035
Plenty of I/O off-board to allow connecting peripherals, such as Serial LCD (AXE033)

Thoughts, ideas, examples welcome!

Richard
 
I

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
rWave,

Actually, the AXE092 schools experimenter is an extremely versitile board. It was the basis of my first dabbling into the PICAXE world.

I have added socket headers to both H1 and H2 connection points. The H2 3-pin header is ideal for powering and signalling to a serial LCD. I don't have the AXE033 serial LCD but there are a few different 5v serial LCDs to choose from.

There are a host of possibilities for plug-in modules that could use the H1 10-pin header. I have made one with a couple of DS18B20s and another with breadboard leads. The 08M may be a bit limited for driving motors, though. Perhaps a 14M schools experimenter is called for?

On the topic of kids: I assume that "middle and high school" means 12 to 15 year olds. My thoughts would be to use low capacity (Eg 5v 150mA) REGULATED wall warts. Batteries will tend to be a bit "slippery" and kids in that age group are developing a lot of "skills" in the area. Bigger items are easier to account for.

On the the topic of developing skills to deal with kids, despite boriz's byline, having some of your own is very rewarding. (Challenging at times). I should know: mine are 12 and 14 at the moment.
 
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Michael 2727

Senior Member
I'll second the AXE092, has a few things to keep newbies interested for at least
30 seconds or so, play them some ringtones, they may even pay attention for the
full lesson. You can make up satelite boards for a DS18B20, IR Decoder etc.
They can be plugged into the 10 pin header.

I am working on my own version 08M, 14M, 20M -
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9894&page=2
Half way down.

A kindly soul from here etched a couple of PCBs for me, I've broken all
fo my PCB drills, replacements should arrive next week, so it's not quite
ready yet. Hopefully I can test/verify it all works next week.
I won't say who made the PCBs or their E-mail inbox may runneth over
with requests ~ ;o)
But thanks again.

rWAVE if you would like the Autotrax Layout or .pdf (only format i have) I can
send it to you. (wait till I debug it first, if any)

To Technical - Has Rev-Ed got anything in the works re: 14M, 20M ?
 
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jmumby

Senior Member
Talking of project boards I would like to see the axe020 ditch the driver chip for a FTDI or similar usb to serial converter and have the 3.3v and 5v lines made available and also supply power to the picaxe. Also the resonator should be a socket rather than a fixed resonator and the headers be female rather than male.

Also the same for CHI-030.

I would buy both tomorrow if they were availabe. Im a lazy hacker and I hate mucking around with a battery pack and a serial cable at play time.
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
jmumby said:
Talking of project boards I would like to see the axe020 ditch the driver chip for a FTDI
Click to expand...
This would add considerably to the cost. Not only do you have to pay for the FTDI chip on every board, but you also need another surface mount soldering stage which increases the cost further.

Our policy is to put the FTDI chip in the AXE027 cable. Buy the cable once, and then you have full USB programming capability and the added bonus that you only have to pay for the FDTI chip once, making each and every project board you then buy cheaper than the other method!

Yes, some people would like to extract 5V from the USB for tinkering. However our research clearly shows that the vast majority of project boards, once they have been programmed, are used in a situation/project away from the computer. So a separate supply is then required anyway.

@Michael, yes several new development boards are to be launched in September, including support for 14M/ 20M chips.
 
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Mycroft2152

Senior Member
Technical said:
This would add considerably to the cost. Not only do you have to pay for the FTDI chip on every board, but you also need another surface mount soldering stage which increases the cost further.
Click to expand...
I would agree that adding a $3 FTDI usb chip would be a relatively significant cost additon to an 08M/14M/20M projert board. But for anythng larger, it is a relatively small cost increase.

This seems to be a rather small minded approach, as the rest of the industry is leaving the PICAXE behind.

It's actually a moot point, since the FTDI chip has already been added to both an 18X and 28X1 PICAXE development boards by one of your US distributers.

Myc
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Mycroft2152 said:
I would agree that adding a $3 FTDI usb chip would be a relatively significant cost additon
Click to expand...
$3 + cost of another extra separate manufacturing stage + cost of another extra test stage...

We'll have to agree to disagree. Buy the AXE027 once and all USB issues, particularly for the tens of thousands of students/hobbyists who build their own boards (and don't want to get into surface mount soldering of tiny components) are over!
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
Mycroft2152 said:
This seems to be a rather small minded approach, as the rest of the industry is leaving the PICAXE behind.
Click to expand...
Is it ? Was it ever "with the PICAXE" to start with ? The PICAXE was designed to fit a particular market's need and by all accounts has been incredibly successful in doing that, and as a by-product it has seen its popularity and use soar outside that target market.

What some people are moving to are more powerful processors which can do specific jobs the PICAXE is not suited to but that's as they out-grow what the PICAXE can do, a normal progression as I see it rather than deserting the camp. To complement that, there are still people who are coming to the PICAXE who find the alternatives too complex to do what they want, to expensive or simply over-kill.

Let's not forget that the rest of the industry offered alternatives to PICAXE when the PICAXE first appeared and people moved to it because it offered what those alternatives did not. Are they really now switching view and doing the opposite ? I don't believe that's entirely true, though some do follow the latest fads and that does influence others. To me, to say the industry is leaving the PICAXE behind is a bit like saying bicycles are redundant in the age of cars. There remains a place and very viable market for each.

Mycroft2152 said:
It's actually a moot point, since the FTDI chip has already been added to both an 18X and 28X1 PICAXE development boards by one of your US distributers.
Click to expand...
But how much does adding a $3 chip add to the overall cost of the package ?

I think there will always be two views; provide USB on-board and add cost to each, or leave it off and provide a USB interface cable as a one-off overhead. There are pros and cons to each and best choice comes down to individual preference and target audience of the product. Ideally all manufacturers would offer both options but they usually second-guess what most customer's preferences would be and go with what they consider most commercially viable. With alternative supplier options, users can vote with their feet and buy whichever they prefer on their own criteria. If one manufacturer gets it wrong and they see market share slipping away they will undoubtedly move as the market requires.
 
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Mycroft2152

Senior Member
hippy said:
But how much does adding a $3 chip add to the overall cost of the package ?
Click to expand...
Well Hippy. since you asked:

The 18X stand alone board is $40 US, the 18X breadboard module is $24 US.

The 28X1 module is $26 US.

Very competively priced compared tio the Rev_Ed non-USB offerings

Myc

Note: I have no vested intersted in this company, I am ony a sastified customer.
 

Attachments

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jmumby

Senior Member
In my part of the world the AXE020 and another 28 pin project board (Ard**no) that does have these features is the same. I have bought one of these http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7841 to get around this. So buy all means add the $3-$10 Im good for it.

I think 28x1 is outside the education market and more on the hobbiest side so the pockets may be a tad bigger. But I don't have any market share graphs to prove that.

It's not just the convienece factor its the fact you also get 3.3v off one board also. Just about all the funky add on sensors (color sensors, accelerometers, gyro's etc) are 3.3 volts so having that off your project board is great.

Atleast female headers anyway. The blade concept is pretty cool and possibly another opportunity for purpose built add-ons.
 
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Mycroft2152

Senior Member
jmumby said:
In my part of the world the AXE020 and another 28 pin project board (Ard**no) that does have these features is the same. I have bought one of these http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7841 to get around this. So buy all means add the $3-$10 Im good for it.
Click to expand...
J,
if you are looking to try out a FTDI breaout board, Fundamental Logic, a Canadian company, has a "kit" for about $8 US. The kit is comprised of the presoldered smt chip and support components.

All you need to do is solder the 2 headers.

http://store.fundamentallogic.com/ecom/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=13

Myc
 
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