Ready packaged Picaxe?

[geoff07]

I have many Picaxe projects around my house doing useful things. One common theme is that they all need a board, a box for protection, often a display, some leds and perhaps a battery or an SMPS.

Now I want to build another one, in this case a boiler dry-cycling preventer. I have exhausted my ideas for reducing my electricity consumption and now I'm working on the gas. This apparently is a source of significant losses, at least worthy of an experiment. The idea is to make sure that the boiler never fires for space heating unless there is room demand; the return temperature is below some threshold; and the outside temperature is below another threshold.

But I then need to do all the work again, when what I would like is some kind of generic package that does the basics. So does anyone know of a reasonably-priced, ready packaged system with a display and a Picaxe chip ready for programming that I could consider? Obviously no one product would meet every need, but for simple projects such as this (not much more than a few temperature sensors, a display and a relay) I could imagine such a thing might exist. Any ideas? Any commercial unit is bound to look prettier than my own efforts, and could save a lot of repeated effort.

 

[westaust55]

I do not believe there are any universal packages with board, enclosure, switches (or holes for same). Display/indicators, etc.
The requirements list to cover every users needs would be too great.
Who wants LEDs, who wants 7-segment displays (1 for Stan/manuka, 2 or more for the rest of us), who wants LCD/OLED displays (16x2 or 20x4).
Electronics store have a range if kits. Those from magazine projects usually have an enclosure - the requirements are known - however many other kits come without enclosures or power supplies .

 

[bryanl]

One idea I am looking at related to this problem is to head over to the local thrift store to pick up a digital clock or two for a project case. If I am lucky, I'll get a display I can re-purpose as well as a set of switches and a container for my project board and whatnot. That keeps my mess and hot glue efforts out of site and the costs down.

If I'm really lucky, I might find a 60 KHz time signal receiver, too ...

Yard sales might be another source.

There seems to be more folks building clocks rather than taking them apart and reverse engineering the section interfaces but there are a few resources around to help.

 

[AllyCat]

Hi Geoff,

One common theme is that they all need a board, a box for protection, often a display, some leds and perhaps a battery or an SMPS.

I've not used one myself, but reprogramming an AXE133, or derivatives, might be a good starting point as far as the PICaxe/PCB is concerned. But it uses an 18M2 rather than my preferred, compatible 08/14/20M2 footprint.

For an "enclosure", many years ago I used the "presentation cases" that came with Parker ballpoint pens. Rather long and thin, but a crystal-clear "lid" which could be masked/painted on the inside, and a base with a recess that would accept a suitably-sized PCB/Veroboard. Pre-SMD so the through-hole soldering pads were on the outside/underside, but could be easily covered with foam rubber/leatherette, etc., to form a "non-slip" base. Perhaps something similar is still available.

Another possibility is to combine a Veroboard (stripboard) PCB assembly, designed/documented using the excellent "Pebble", with an AA battery box, for example.

Cheers, Alan.

 

[RobertN]

I have used PVC pipe and components for enclosures, you are limited to cylindrical shapes whether short or long. 4" dia. and other size end caps have a flat end surface. A lot of enclosures can be made from a length of inexpensive smaller diameter exterior electrical conduit. Its easy to work with and works well with outdoor projects.

 

[techElder]

The OP is not asking for a "how-to" on building a system from scratch. That's getting way off track.

So does anyone know of a reasonably-priced, ready packaged system with a display and a Picaxe chip ready for programming that I could consider?

 

[srnet]

Obviously no one product would meet every need, but for simple projects such as this (not much more than a few temperature sensors, a display and a relay) I could imagine such a thing might exist. Any ideas? Any commercial unit is bound to look prettier than my own efforts, and could save a lot of repeated effort.

Long time ago, you used to be able to buy universal chassis parts in aluminum. You could make up a case to a size that suited you, rather than make do with so called standard case sizes.

Wonder if they are still made ?

One thought would be, if there was a series of case frames, would there be potential for having front and rear panels 3D printed to order ?

 

[geoff07]

Thanks for all the ideas. I conclude that there isn't anything out there that I haven't discovered yet that would do the whole job, but there are lots of ideas in use. Perhaps there should be a packaging theme on the forum for people to add pics of their many and varied ideas.

My own trick to reduce the work is to use transparent-lid boxes (Geros ones are quite good) and increasingly I'm using remote controls and IR receivers to reduce the need for buttons and menus.

Perhaps the single most useful product enhancement that Rev-Ed could do along these lines would be to supply bezels to go with the displays (which I have failed to find elsewhere). Then the outside could look professional whatever was inside!

 

[srnet]

Perhaps the single most useful product enhancement that Rev-Ed could do along these lines would be to supply bezels to go with the displays (which I have failed to find elsewhere). Then the outside could look professional whatever was inside!

If you cant find them, maybe there not made ?

Problem then is that having a mold made for a bezel can be lots of money, so you have to sell lots of bezels to recoup the cost.

 

[ZOR]

Sounds like a very good project idea. I always think it's so annoying hearing the boiler fire up when the outside temperature is warmer. Added to that, in the summer when the house is so hot at night and the temperature has dropped outside, a system of fans to bring the cool air (swop) into the house would be another project worth looking at. Again it's monitoring whats outside and inside a house. Definate Picaxe projects.

Not wanting to rattle on, but often standing outside feeing the heat from my boiler vent, why is there not a last minute grab of the indirectly available heat, ie pipe carrying water through the heat back into the house resources.

Good luck, will watch your postings

 

[geoff07]

If you have a condensing boiler, then the exhaust should be quite cool anyway (~53C) so making use of any low grade heat thus gained might be tricky (maybe a Peltier application?). If you don't have a condensing boiler then shame on you!

The plan is to:

a) disable the heating (via the thermostat signal) when the outside temp is > 15.5C (that seems to be a standard) but it will be adjustable
b) disable the heating when (go temperature - return temperature) is less than 11C, also adjustable, and also apparently a standard for radiator drops, though that assumes perfectly sized rads and I don't suppose many actually are..

There will also be a set-back button to drop the temp when going out shopping etc.

Claims are made for a 20-30% reduction in gas usage. Frankly I doubt it, but time will tell. A low cost Picaxe project is justified, but not a commercial unit for £200+.

I'm also looking at wireless radiator TRVs but I haven't discovered the control protocol yet. Any info welcome! The Honeywell units (HR80UK) run on 868MHz with a bidirectional protocol. Their setup is pretty but is so expensive it will barely pay back. And their cylinder stat won't fit my Stelflow cylinder. Hence the diy potential.

 

[SteveT]

If you cant find them, maybe there not made ?

Problem then is that having a mold made for a bezel can be lots of money, so you have to sell lots of bezels to recoup the cost.

You could always have one or two 3D printed.

 

[eclectic]

You could always have one or two 3D printed.

As a matter of interest, how much would something like that cost?

e

 

[SteveT]

As a matter of interest, how much would something like that cost?

e

http://www.shapeways.com/model/990301/mamu-s-dna20d-screen-cradle.html?li=productGroup&materialId=25

I don't know if this is even the same sort of thing but it should give you an idea on price. (2euro.14)

BTW check out the jewelry on that site.

 

[srnet]

I don't know if this is even the same sort of thing but it should give you an idea on price. (2euro.14)

You can 3D print an LCD bezel and sell it for £1.80 ?

 

[geoff07]

This is getting interesting. As I see it, one could:

- select a favourite plastic box for use as a project enclosure
- design a replacement top for it, incorporating any desired features, including a bezel, mounting posts for PCBs, holes for push-buttons, etc.
- turn that into a 3-D design using e.g. Blender (open-source design software compatible with shapeways and suitable for almost any platform: important for me as I mostly use Ubuntu)
- upload to shapeways
- choose a material (white plastic, stainless steel, gold-plated etc.)
- wait for it to arrive for a few dollars/pounds/euros in cost (depending on material).
- if good, make a batch and sell them to fellow Picaxers!

 

[SteveT]

You can 3D print an LCD bezel and sell it for £1.80 ?

Not quite, when you look at the engineering drawing on the link in message #14, this thing is less than an inch across it's longest length. Sorry, my mistake, it still shouldn't be that expensive though, they charge by the cubic cM and when you think about it a bezel is a lot of empty space so as long as your wall thickneses are not too bad it should still be pretty cheap.

This firm uses the laser and powder method for it's plastic components, others use extruded plastic just like the 3D printers for home use. Extruded plastic parts will be able to use just about any colour plastic filament.

Seriously thinking about a home machine for next summer, with twin extruders so you can have two colour 3D prints if needed. Accuracy for the home machines can be as good as +- 0.3mm. Repeatability a lot better than that.

 

[srnet]

OK take a typical ABS project box, 150x80x50mm.

Shapeways charge approx $1.75 per cc of material (black plastic) used.

The typical project box weighs 70.15g, I believe the density of ABS is 1.05g/cc, so the box is 67cc.

Cost of box is therefore ($1.75 x 67) + $1.75 handling = $119 = £73.40

Bargain !

 

[geoff07]

Indeed, but you would only need to make the lid or part of the lid.

But think what will happen when they are commonplace. And how soon that will be.

Slightly OT, there is a film on TED showing 3D printing of body parts. Worth a look.

 

[SteveT]

Right.......... I found this model http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1390/#files Downloaded the relevant .stl file(s) and uploaded them to Shapeways. This is the resulting file/price.

https://www.shapeways.com/model/1389774/?li=aeTabs

continued.....

 

[SteveT]

additional file

View attachment Edit Model_ Top-smooth-6-3x2 - Shapeways.pdf

WAY too expensive from this place. I would imagine a lot cheaper from someone who uses plastic extrusion.

($21.68 for a ceramic one)

 

[SteveT]

Totally OT

I wonder how much they would charge for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=885oBNzKI_Y

 

[srnet]

I would imagine a lot cheaper from someone who uses plastic extrusion.

Any details ?

 

[SteveT]

Any details ?

Funny you should say that........ just found this guy on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121187082552?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

10p (£0.10) per cc - hell of a lot cheaper.

As an aside to this, I downloaded Blender which is a free multi platform 3d design package. Still trying to get to grips with it. I'm on a Linux platform so unable to use other free software. One of the easiest appears to be Autodesk 123dapp which works on Windows, Mac or Ipad. There is an online version which is supposed to work with Chrome web browser (not the linux version it doesn't). Google sketchup would also be good to use..... but not on Linux. So.......... what we need is someone with a windows or mac box willing to learn a simple 3d prog (Autodesk) to design a bezel for us. I'm saying autodesk because it is geared more toward 3d printing. It has a hollow out tool so that you don't have to have solid models (like the one I uploaded to shapeways).

Over to you lads/ lasses, any takers??

http://www.123dapp.com/design

 

[srnet]

Now that is a lot cheaper, certainly worth thinking about for a custom front panel.

Wonder where they are, they say in South Wales, which is my neck of the woods.

 

[AllyCat]

Hi,

The ebay listing says "item location : Cardiff". But also "Collection in person only". So perhaps a for you, but for most of us.

Cheers, Alan.

 

[SteveT]

Hi,

The ebay listing says "item location : Cardiff". But also "Collection in person only". So perhaps a for you, but for most of us.

Cheers, Alan.

I've just checked out another one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221288141760?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Also collection only. Will look for more

 

[Paix]

On the software front DesignSpark Mechanical from RS Components seems a good bet. Windows and OSX I believe, don't know if it's good for Wine on Linux but remain hopeful.
SUSE 12.2 user.

 

[SteveT]

Also collection only. Will look for more

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251346854517?var=550285711294&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

This one quotes £10 (£6.50 + £3.50 p&p) for upto 4"x4"x4" 3d print ............. I think?? Listing is not very clear.

 

[MikeM100]

Don't know whether it has been mentioned in this thread but this project may be of interest for the heating control bit:

http://www.earth.org.uk/open-source-programmable-thermostatic-radiator-valve.html

I believe PicAxes have been used ?

 

[geoff07]

Yes, OpenTRV is very interesting. It takes the current plan a stage further, and it is a stage I'm researching.

OpenTRV seeks to control existing commercial TRVs. The really hard bit is the battery powered actuator on the rad and the control logic, radio and packaging, which OpenTRV does not seek to do. There are a few commercial TRV products, generally incompatible with each other, some using bi-directional radio between the TRV and the base, and some simply getting set-points downloaded by radio using a laptop and a USB stick. In at least one case the radio uses Zigbee but only for basic commands, and generally they have to be reverse engineered.

They all have a high price in common, and as I have a lot of radiators I'm not going to spend £60 or even £25 on each just yet. But if there was an open solution (with a common open protocol) then I could do my own controller and the TRV heads would commoditise so I might be able to justify the expense. This may be one of the early developments in the 'internet of everything', but currently they are on the 868MHz telemetry channel rather than WiFi. Right now we would pay a high price for being early-adopters in this field. Things will change very quickly though.

 

[fritz42_male]

Hmmm - you lot like making things more complex than they need to be. Figure out your enclosure design maybe using the RasPi cases as an example. Go onto Fiverr or one of the cnc laser cutter forums and find someone who will laser cut perspex for you to that pattern. They'll probably do it cheaply.

I went to a local plastics firm and asked them if I could rummage through their bins - came away with LOADS of clear and coloured perspex pieces in different thicknesses. Bought some perspex glue and a cheap tap n die set and made my own.

I'll probably design a case up for a kiwi board and 16x2 display as I have quite a few of these.

Buildlog.net for cnc laser cutter stuff and look for fabricafifa on fiverr are good starting points. Fabricafifa will also cut that thin wood stuff they make those 3d jigsaws from which also make good cases.

 

[SteveT]

Finally got to grips with Blender and I now know why no one sells bezels for LCD's - every brand is different sized. I've got 3 here from various sources.

LCD 1 - (no backlight) 70x27x4mm
LCD 2 - Blue backlight 71x24x7mm
LCD 3 - RGB backlight 71x25x8.5mm

So I designed a very basic bezel for the LCD with blue backlight with an overall size of 91x44x7mm with 1mm wall thickness.



https://www.shapeways.com/model/1409617/bezel-for-16x2-lcd.html?li=productGroup&materialId=27

Much better price, euro 5.47 each from the expensive place (wait 'till you see the shipping though )

I think I've managed to enable the download option on Shapeways so that you can get the .stl file and use it on one of the plastic extruder type sites. Should be interesting to see.

 

[John West]

I belong to a tech club in Boulder, Colorado, USA. They have two 3D printers I can use to build any sort of custom plastic parts or enclosures I desire. That alone makes it well worth paying the club dues to get access to. You might look into either joining such a club, or finding a member of such a club (or owner of such a machine,) to build you whatever custom plastic device you wish. They are the answer to hobbyist's prayers.

Once the design work for the shape has been done, it can be reproduced over and over. There are even databases for a wide variety of different shapes to be found on the web.

 

[Paix]

You make a very good point John and the machines themselves are becoming increasingly common. As you say, a Godsend for hobbyists with an idea for a custom part.

 

[SteveT]

I don't think we have a club of that sort round here, but, with a bit of luck (and a lot of saving), I may be getting my own next year.

 

[John West]

Start one, Steve. It's a whole lot easier for a dozen people to get the money for a really good 3D printer, (and other equipment as well,) than for one person to get one for himself. You could limit the nature of the group to a simple 3D printer consortium, or make a full-fledged PICAXE tech club out of it. Our group is growing by a couple of members a week, and each is contributing more tools or expertise, or both.

I realize that's a terribly socialist concept, and some folks hate that, but the math doesn't lie. Since you (and most other folks) may only need to make a couple of 3D parts a month (or a year) it just doesn't make sense for one person to buy an expensive machine that can be making several parts every day of the week.

 

[SteveT]

Sorry for the delay, other things came up. Nice idea to start a club but as far as I know there are only two of us picaxers in the north east of England. I'm sure there will be people (uneducated of course) that will be devotees of one or more of the other microcontrollers. I suppose the easiest way to contact them would be through each microcontrollers support site. Then there are the 3d designers out there, same applies to them.

I just don't think I could supply the time and patience to set up a club.