Programming Editor Fails to Program

[ayounis]

Hello,

I have just received my PICAXE 28x2 module... my experience so far is a nightmare. I started using the Programming Editor for programming and communicating with the module but that was never been successful but very rarely.

before firing any questions I tried the WinAXEpad and for my surprise it is working very fine but in few times I need to reissue the commend (program/clear/...) twice or more.

as I have a PICO oscilloscope, I was able to monitor the behaviors of Serial Out (pin 0) and Serial In (pin 1) and my findings are:
1- WinAXEpad is able to release (or drop) Serial In to -8V after each communication with the PICAXE module
2- Programming Editor does not do the same

as you are recommending the Programming Editor (which I believe is better to use) I need your help with my issue.

regards,

Amr

 

[MartinM57]

Welcome to the forum.

Your experience should be pain-free and if you're on a Windows PC you should be using the Programming Editor.

So the inevitable questions:
- version of Programming Editor?
- what sort of error messages are you getting and when?
- what sort of download cable (AXE027, USB010, home-made etc)
- is this the AXE200 28X2 module?
- what sort of power supply are you using?
- ...and anything else you think we might want to know

You shouldn't need to resort to a PICOscope to debug what's going on...

 

[Mahhari]

I have to agree, the PICAXE was the easiest and pain free experience I've had. Did you follow the serial recommended schematic? with pull down resistors etc? Also did you wire the reset pin high? without the reset pin to +5v the picaxe is unreliable.

 

[hippy]

The AXE200 ( 28X2 on DIP Carrier Module ) should be one of the easiest products to work with, equivalent to taking a pre-assembled PCB with PICAXE and everything else on it. All that is needed is to supply power ( 0V to Leg 27, +V to leg 28, 7V to 12V ), plug-in an AXE026 or AXE027 cable from a PC, configure the Programming Editor, code, download and go.

 

[Andrew Cowan]

Can you use the serial port test wizard in Prog. editor to check all is OK with the serial port settings?

Andrew

 

[ayounis]

I would like first to thank those who replied...

here are the answers:

• Programming Editor version 5.2.7
• several error messages... "serial port error - code 0x1F54 'Error reading comm device'"
• I am using a Manhattan USB to serial adapter with driver version: 3.3.3.114 from Prolific dated 1/14/2009
• it is an AX200 module
• power supply is SparkFun Breadboard Power Supply Stick sku: PRT-09319 (operating at 5v)
• I am using PICAXE stereo serial download cable
• port test wizard results are that when the led is OFF the meter reading -8V, when the led is ON the meter is reading +8V

Additional info:

• I am using Vista SP2
• user is with admin rights

Why WinAXEpad is doing a better job here?

regards,

Amr

 

[MartinM57]

• power supply is SparkFun Breadboard Power Supply Stick sku: PRT-09319 (operating at 5v)
• port test wizard results are that when the led is OFF the meter reading -8V, when the led is ON the meter is reading +8V

Why WinAXEpad is doing a better job here?

Don't know - I don't use Vista so can't comment on the USB cable and drivers but I'm sure other Vista users can.

Just to be clear:

• power supply is connected to pin 25 not pin 28?
• voltages are measured where? Can you measure them at the PICAXE Serin pin with the Test facility?

 

[hippy]

"serial port error - code 0x1F54 'Error reading comm device'"
I am using a Manhattan USB to serial adapter with driver version: 3.3.3.114 from Prolific dated 1/14/2009

The error code suggests a device driver error. It would be worth trying an update of the driver to the Rev-Ed supplied one for the USB010 as downloaded via the Software & Drivers link at top right of page.

We recommend the AXE027 USB-to-serial cable for programming the PICAXE.

Why WinAXEpad is doing a better job here?

The Programming Editor and WinAXEpad are written using two different PC programming languages which use different libraries to interface with the Windows OS. There should in principle be no difference in behaviour but there obviously is. We have no control over those libraries nor how they work, nor any control over device drivers which are written by manufacturers. In the case of the Programming Editor we are using a recommended Microsoft supplied library.

 

[ayounis]

thanks everyone...

I have removed the latest profilic USB-RS232 drivers and installed the advised one and things are getter better now. I will need to test things for longer anyway.

while appreciating help I do also highly recommend PICAXE developers to look at their code for such bugs. yes I call it a bug as the code should be designed in a more reliable way and attention should be given to such little things.

I still also believe that the Programming Editor, overall, is the weakest link among documentation in the PICAXE chain.

I hope you take my comments constructively as with no effort a comparison to other competitive products with much less features (BSII) PICAXE will not be a winner surely.

regards,

Amr

 

[hippy]

while appreciating help I do also highly recommend PICAXE developers to look at their code for such bugs. yes I call it a bug as the code should be designed in a more reliable way and attention should be given to such little things.

While PICAXE developers do indeed examine our code for bugs and obviously strive not to have any ( though we are all only human ), it is somewhat unreasonable to expect those developers or Rev-Ed to take responsibility for any failings of others we have no control over.

If you were to examine the code used to which this problem relates you would see that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that code. The failure does not arise through our code or its use but as best can be determined within the device driver or its interfacing within and to the Windows OS.

Where we can work around bugs and issues in third-party products we will attempt to do so but that is not always possible. At best we may only be able to report a failure in those products which is what this error message appears to indicate. We cannot produce more meaningful error messages when the error itself is only meaningful to the developers of software which has failed which is not ours.

 

[slimplynth]

thanks everyone...

I have removed the latest profilic USB-RS232 drivers and installed the advised one and things are getter better now. I will need to test things for longer anyway.

while appreciating help I do also highly recommend PICAXE developers to look at their code for such bugs. yes I call it a bug as the code should be designed in a more reliable way and attention should be given to such little things.

I still also believe that the Programming Editor, overall, is the weakest link among documentation in the PICAXE chain.

I hope you take my comments constructively as with no effort a comparison to other competitive products with much less features (BSII) PICAXE will not be a winner surely.

regards,

Amr

errr... Rev-ed, Technical, Hippy, Mods and Forum members always recommend that the AXE027 is used. However, they also help out when people do go their own way.

 

[ayounis]

we are having two opposite direction which makes such replies from your side but from my side I still insist on what I stated earlier and do not agree on what you telling me... this of course does not undermine any value PICAXE members are doing.

again thank you for your support and regards, Amr

 

[slurp]

errr... Rev-ed, Technical, Hippy, Mods and Forum members always recommend that the AXE027 is used. However, they also help out when people do go their own way.

Agreed. I think Rev-Ed is more than reasonable helping people to resolve problems with 3rd party products.

I've had no trouble using the AXE027 with the instructions placed below the PIACAXE Manual link at the top of this page. It seems that these instructions work for most of the 3rd party Prolific devices too!

regards,
colin

 

[MartinM57]

You can of course, even these days, have whatever opinion you wish. It does seem rather hard for Rev-Ed to cater for all possible USB adaptors that might exist to the level of detail that you seem to think they should.

The best I can see that Rev-Ed could do is put a footnote on page 6 of the manual that says something along the lines of "...other USB to serial programming adaptors are available which may or may not be electrically compatible with the PICAXE download system or software comptatible with the Programming Editor. Correct operation can only be guaranteed by using approved products"...or some such.

(along with an indication in step 2 that just plugging in the adapter is not sufficient - you need to install the drivers that are available for it as well)

Just my $0.01 worth...I can't get too excited about someone who uses non-recommended components and has overly high expectations...IMHO. I'm out...

 

[hippy]

It's always difficult to fairly and reasonably apportion any blame or responsibility in a system which is reliant on multiple parts and needing all parts of the system working correctly.

You buy a sound plot of land, have a good concrete footing laid and a perfectly good shed placed on that. Five minutes later the slab sinks a metre into the ground, the concrete footing shatters, the shed collapses. One can argue long and hard and around in circles over who's responsible, and for what, and who should foot the bill for the disastrous outcome.

I personally see the Rev-Ed application software in the role of a shed, perfectly okay in itself but reliant on the foundation and groundwork being sound.

 

[BeanieBots]

To put it even more bluntly, it's like blaming YOUR code when it doesn't behave as expected due to an error within the PE, firmware or simulator!

 

[ayounis]

there is a thin line between being funny and sarcastic... I hope you start recognize it...

 

[BeanieBots]

Not intended to be either funny or sarcastic.
It's in line with your own comment about where the 'line' is.

Rev-Ed has far less control over third party drivers than you or I have over the PE etc. At least we have a voice which is listened to here.

 

[slimplynth]

There's a thin line between many things Ayounis...

I've always found well placed sarcasm to be highly amusing - it's perfectly ok if the recipient is well known and at ease with it. Though I don't think BB's answer was at all sarcastic - I'd say it was assertive.

There's also a fine line between being percieved as aggressive or assertive.. aggression (for me) carries with it the connotations of being narrow minded. (Ayounis - I'm not saying that you are narrow minded or aggressive - I'm saying that there's a fine line between being percieved as such).

I've not read anything above in the replies that be interpreted as such either. Though I did expect more vigourouse responses to the following...

while appreciating help I do also highly recommend PICAXE developers to look at their code for such bugs. yes I call it a bug as the code should be designed in a more reliable way and attention should be given to such little things.

I still also believe that the Programming Editor, overall, is the weakest link among documentation in the PICAXE chain.

I hope you take my comments constructively as with no effort a comparison to other competitive products with much less features (BSII) PICAXE will not be a winner surely.

I was surprised myself by the lack of forum-frenzy at this, as you'd stated that you hadn't used the AXE027 and I knew that the majority of readers would be thinking (Blame the PE and the programmers when it's impossible to determine this was the root cause when a non-AXE027 cable was used hmmm???)

It's easy to critisise so I'll stop there and wish you every luck and success in your project.

Regards

Slim