Perforated Keycard Switches

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sedeap

Senior Member
Hi pals...
Anyone has played with holed keycard switches???
Just, a friend come with the need of recycle this kind of light switches that uses a perforated plastic card to activate it...
Some (several) years ago, I use to make some installations of this devices, but in those years, the card make interfer with a myriad of tiny contacts inside the slot... and a coded is readed, activating a relay. (if is OK) like a regular key.
Mainly use of this, is in Public shelter or Hotels, to prevent electrical lost, when people isn´t there. (once exit door is open, all power get off, then you need to reactivate it with the keycard when you come back in room)

Link similar to this, but with coded card.

(added new pic here) of the coded Cardkey



Yeah... I know... those thingies are ineficients, due the dust and condensation... but... my friend beg me for help...:rolleyes:

But... This relatively new devices, seems to use some kind of optical recognition of the holes instead. (or maybe are phototransistors?) and the decoding gadget is missing...so I think this is a task for Picaxe... and can be enhanced with some delayed timer to power off, and a reminder buzzer previous to do it... like a ladder light timer.


Anyway... any help will be appreciated...

 

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S

sedeap

Senior Member
Holed keycards reader

JimPerry said:
Any details on the device? Make, model, photo? :confused:
Click to expand...
Ok... no brand noticed on device (at bare eye) trough webcam (skype)
No photo or spec yet because devices are in friend house and she hasn't technical profile...
I suppose I will go her house in weekend, and then I can check those thingies... and take a deeper look.
She saved those gadgets from her former Office, when they changed it by RFid cards, for personnel.(that's why are coded cards, instead regular hotel type) and the edge isn't used to press a Microswitch activator.(or Slotted Optical Switch)
Just the coded bunch of holes must be readed to activate the relay.... but i wondering if Picaxe can read a barcode equivalent in holes...
Maybe is a overkill solution, to just for use in light saving... but dunno...

The damn tingling worm of "doer", was triggered... and now i'm hooked with this challenge, by the second that she asked me "can you do it for me? darling... "

Damn ! ... womens lead us to hell.... LOL
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
"can you do it for me? darling... "

Damn ! ... womens lead us to hell.... LOL
Click to expand...
Sounds like she is leading you by another part of your body and not your brain, or is that what you mean by "damn tingling worm triggered"
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Holed cardkeys reader

SAborn said:
Sounds like she is leading you by another part of your body and not your brain, ..."
Click to expand...
I'm not very sure about what she wants from me, or what part they want, (LOL ;)) but she certainly knows how to encourage me to to help with her ​​problems
And besides, it's a cute and friendly girl with good hip, and no husband.
She is well aware of that, and she knows how easy it is for a woman like that, get a boyfriend (or girlfriend), and I think this way (working) is not the most convenient way of seduction.
But with women, one never knows.

:rolleyes:
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
sedeap said:
I'm not very sure about what she wants from me, or what part they want, (LOL ;)) but she certainly knows how to encourage me to to help with her ​​problems ,,,,,, But with women, one never knows.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
So we'll all sweat blood - you sort it - and she'll say "That's lovely - I knew you could do it ... my cousin has problems with her PC etc etc"

Mind you, 35 -years ago, it worked for me! :rolleyes:
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
JimPerry said:
So we'll all sweat blood - you sort it - and she'll say "That's lovely - I knew you could do it ... my cousin has problems with her PC etc etc"

Mind you, 35 -years ago, it worked for me! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
LOL.... Busted !!!

and your signature looks like a mistake too... :p (more exp?)
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
Best get back on topic before Hippy gets all kiddie sensitive on us.

Do you have one of the key cards that you can take a photo of so we can see how the holes are coded.
 
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Paix

Senior Member
If your pal has more than one card, is there perhaps a single hole that is common, so that can be used to indicate that the card is in the correct registration and that the holes are to be sensed? or does the bottom edge of the card operate a micro switch for this purpose?

You might always ask if it would be a good idea for you to have a spare key in case any servicing is required. Mechanical locks need a lot of regular intention :)
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Holed cardkeys reader

SAborn said:
Best get back on topic before Hippy gets all kiddie sensitive on us.

Do you have one of the key cards that you can take a photo of so we can see how the holes are coded.
Click to expand...
Here we go... as I can see... maybe up to 32 holes can be placed in the card.
ZigZag Pattern... or in columns 5-4-5-4-5-4-5, 5mm dia, each hole...

Tricky to read with a Px-08m alone...but maybe with a cd4017b can be readed in 7 steps (one per column)
Or just using a Px-18m2 to avoid complications...
After all... must see the reader itself first to know how to read.

When I get some Pics, will shared. (maybe this weekend)
 

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hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
sedeap said:
Just the coded bunch of holes must be readed to activate the relay.... but i wondering if Picaxe can read a barcode equivalent in holes...
Click to expand...
Should be reasonably easy if you can figure the electronics out.

It's likely just a number of sensors that are activated or not when there's a hole or there isn't. Those may be available as raw signals, processed to give highs and lows or may be connected to shift registers to simplify external connections. A closer physical inspection should reveal what you have.
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Holed cardkeys reader

hippy said:
Should be reasonably easy if you can figure the electronics out.

... A closer physical inspection should reveal what you have.
Click to expand...
Yeah... agree, until have spec, not worth to brain struggle.
I start with prog part...
Pseudo code: (semantics)
start
Check "door"... (magnetic reed)
if closed, blink green led once (pause and return)
if open, start timer, beep twice
when timer countdown, every second beep once and do "regret"
when timer out, beep five times and low pin relay
start blinking fast to easy find the switch in dark

regret
if pin(x) low, beep twice (card left in slot), pause and back to countdown
if pin(y) high, do keycheck, pause and back to countdown
goto start

keycheck
listen to serial pin for code (key)... or...
do read of the slot output signal or ...
do read secuential parse of phototransistors in slot.
if code wrong beep 3 times blink 3 times, pause and back to countdown
if code right beep twice and high pin relay (and dismiss timer)
return

timer
do some loop and count
return

The idea is not forget card in slot, wait for a while before shut down relay, and listen for a code.

C.U Pals...

;)
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Electric bill saver

Ok...
After a brief look into the slot gadget, realize that all back electronics are missing... (is a pitty... she only save the 2 fronts covers, thinking she gets the whole gadget, and the rest maybe today laid inside the drywall unnoticed after all this years, in her former rented office)
So only a bunch of green leds tied to a card in the front "pocket" of the gadget. All in parallel except one left alone (top-left.) maybe to check if card is inserted... but dunno.
There is a kinda logo resembling a bear, smudged on led side card.
Anyway.... I think I'll use the alone led, just is to light saving... not a High security access anymore...
So... I will focused in prog part of this gadget, and how it be a PICAXED converted device.

C ya pals...
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
It probably worked by converting each Row into an 8-bit signal - as you pushed the card in you get 7 consecutive 8-bit signals as the unlocking code :confused:
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
JimPerry said:
It probably worked by converting each Row into an 8-bit signal - as you pushed the card in you get 7 consecutive 8-bit signals as the unlocking code :confused:
Click to expand...
I thought of that ... using a cd4017b can be readed in 7 steps (one per column) with a small Px-08m, but becomes too complex just for a light saver gadget.
But, the recycle of a complete one (of these readers) can be done too with a Picaxe, and get high security code (32 holes... more than 4 million keycodes)
But under the actually circumstances, and half devices only... is over task.
The idea is saving pay bill, after all...

Thanks pals.
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
In the UK you can get light switches that you push - and they literally "pop" out and off after about 2 minutes (some sort of slowly leaking air bellow contraption) nothing like that available? :rolleyes:
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
JimPerry said:
In the UK you can get light switches that you push - and they literally "pop" out and off after about 2 minutes (some sort of slowly leaking air bellow contraption) nothing like that available? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Air delayed?... first notice of that (clever) ,
but light "ladder timer" 2-3min are common and cheap.



But that is half of the task here (and inverted duty), need to check door also, as expressed in previous post, to shutdown electricity when people left the shelter, so when inside and insert card, the power keep conected, until they open front door to leave, so wait 3 mins and shutdown mains, with a reminder if they leave card inserted. (shutdown anyway after 3 mins)

:)
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
OK. Two questions (maybe more ...)

1 Why do they need power in room?

2 Why do they need to restrict access?

:confused:
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
sedeap said:
Hi pals...

Mainly use of this, is in Public shelter or Hotels, to prevent electrical lost, when people isn´t there. (once exit door is open, all power get off, then you need to reactivate it with the keycard when you come back in room)

...so I think this is a task for Picaxe... and can be enhanced with some delayed timer to power off, and a reminder buzzer previous to do it... like a ladder light timer.
Click to expand...
sedeap said:
Ok...
Anyway.... I think I'll use the alone led, just is to light saving... not a High security access anymore...
Click to expand...
sedeap said:
But, the recycle of a complete one (of these readers) can be done too with a Picaxe, and get high security code (32 holes... more than 4 million keycodes)
But under the actually circumstances, and half devices only... is over task.
The idea is saving pay bill, after all...
Click to expand...
JimPerry said:
OK. Two questions (maybe more ...)

1 Why do they need power in room?

2 Why do they need to restrict access?

:confused:
Click to expand...
Answer 1

- is a Shelter (in hunting/fishing area) and people come and go letting lights on and fridge plugged in
This mean one need to walk in forest to shelter and turn all off... and walk back office.

Answer 2

- Not restricted access, just rented, and bills come heavy if power isn't controlled
This mean the people can use power when inside, when come out, mains get off
(unless some rascal go out trough window, to fool the device)

...
Right now, the workaround, is release the shunt off from main electrical box, at SOHO, but this let the entire area powered off, and some walk-path lights with motion detectors timers (pier, gateway, etc.) and breach alarm, wifi, beacon, and other stuff also go off the power.

So when come in, open padlock, open door, insert card, and power activated...
when go out, open door, timer starts, warning you if card is left in slot, after 3 mins, shut mains off
K.I.S.a.F.P. ( keep it simple and fool proof )
:rolleyes:

*.*
 
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JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
But what time period? You don't want fridges going off every few minutes if some one goes out for afternoon ...
 
S

sedeap

Senior Member
eclectic said:
So, do you need some Picaxe keys?

http://www.techsupplies.co.uk/epages/Store.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies
http://www.picaxe.com/docs/AXE109.pdf

Or, use a DS18B20 with OWIN?

e
Click to expand...
Uh?
"The DS18B20 digital thermometer provides 9-bit to 12-bit ..."
really? what for?

OWIN?
nah... too complex for a switch...

Picaxe Key? (iButton)
nah... I will use a slot reader just cuz laying around and have a cover with good look... (almost all electronics are missing) but also can use a press button for the task instead...

Just a smart timer with a Px-08m and a reed switch over door (to manage one well isolated mains activator) usually I done this with MOC 3021 and Triac

intended to be K.I.S.A.F.P and reliable.

Thanks Pals...

:rolleyes:

*.*
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
JimPerry said:
But what time period? You don't want fridges going off every few minutes if some one goes out for afternoon ...
Click to expand...
Is a overnight shelter... all comodities inside (toilet, shower, kitchenette, etc) no need to get out unless you go back home... and if some one open door, and any other people remain inside, just swipe in/out the plastic card and timer is dismissed.
(fridge is the kind of a caravan... no motor, just a board inside that comes cold when plugged in.)
The Main use of this kind of shelters are avoid tents, but usually people come with their own cooler and stuff (for cook or sleep) all work inside at 12vCC (like a caravan) trough mains converter, which is intended to shut down.
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Here we go.... again

Well...

This year all friends becomes "needy" of some gadget... LOL...
And... she was not the exception... and she is lonely again...:rolleyes:
This situation becomes more and more a deja-vú... damn it....
why womens never say exactly what they want ????

Now again want to put bills-savers in the shelters, and now are 4 and 2 more under construction...
Last year she drop the whole idea when new boyfriend told her not worth at all.
As soon as she gets "single" again... last month, start to thinking about electronics controls.
Last weekend call me to invite me spend few days there, fishing and looking for improvements...
(that reminds me the #5 post here)

OK... going back to the problem... now need a new 6 cards at least, and make 4 new holsters...
or maybe do all new at once and forget the old hardware... I think will be the best.

Any ideas? or something to share with me? (cuz the holed cards still likes me)
RFID is too much in this case, and a simple button is too dull...

This seems to keep my mind busy all the "long" weekend... :p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~
|><((º> |><((º> |><((º> |><((º> |><((º> |><((º> |><((º> J
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
All sounds a little fishy to me and i dont mean the fishing.

Would a key pad be suitable or an Ibutton.

Edit...

You say no RFID, it might be worth another look as its rather cheap and todays perforated card equivilent, as if you need to build several of these than a easy to find module might cost less than building/sourcing a discontinued part.

Have a look at these.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mifare-RC522-RFID-Read-Induction-Sensor-Proximity-Module-With-S50-Card-Key-Chain-/141032097938?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item20d62b0892#ht_4835wt_983


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ELECTRONIC-OPTICAL-CARD-READER-CARD-SWITCH-INFRARED-/370878123226?pt=UK_Burglar_Alarms&hash=item565a0f0cda#ht_2620wt_1121

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Single-Door-Entry-RFID-Card-Reader-Password-Keypad-Access-Control-500-Users-Home-/181157432853?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item2a2dd30e15#ht_2406wt_883
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
OK...
As tomorrow I go to fishing... for long weekend... or a whole week (it depends of the hostess and his abilities, including cooking... LOL) :rolleyes:
I know that the challenge is the isolation and the humidity since is near a river.
The good thing is... not high mains to deal... just 12V like caravans.


As say in post#14 the idea is not forget card in slot, wait for a while before shut down relay, and listen for a code.


All must be made tamper proof an sealed as possible. (Ants here are an issue)


Probabily I use a standard card pocket like hotels, but with an extra sensor to check card number (Shelter1 -> card1) and a phototransistor can do the task (through a hole in card) and be small. Each pocket will have a sensor at different position to "key" the appropiate card.

C.U Pals
 
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Paix

Senior Member
@Sedap, Host = his abilities, Hostess = her abilities. Just in case there is something more important than the cooking that you might have overlooked. Best to be sure that it isn't only a language anomaly.

Regarding the ants; if you build dead-bug style then that might frighten them off. Either that or use of hot glue or silicone sealant to seal your chosen enclosure. Can you imagine ants being able to hack the optical coding of your locks by working in formation to cover/reveal selected sensors?
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
Fishing and hunting (long weekend)

@Paix
Bear with me... Im not a english native writer... and sometimes, I misspelled some word...
And Im sure is only a languaje anomaly... lol... (guess how im sure...):rolleyes:
I was not overlooked nothing, really, I take a deep look over every inch of the... matters.

The problem with ants here are a serious issue, they chew all sealants, the only solution is plastic fusion, or a tight cover with screws.
(ants make havoc here, and they be able of chew a plastic cap of a coke bottle in a trash can just to reach the few drops inside)

C.U Pal

:cool:
 
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Paix

Senior Member
So, not your average European domestic ant problem by any stretch of the imagination then.

I hadn't thought about silicone sealant being chewed by ants. The most I get is bees and wasps chewing polystyrene.

Who would be a honey bee with ants like yours in the vicinity . . . ?

Keep a metal cap on your supply of cold beer/cerveza muy fria. Enjoy the fishing.
 
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sedeap

Senior Member
I'm Back

Hi Pals:

Finally she let me out ... hahaha ...
I just made my escape ... but she's great.
We went fishing, hunting and many other "ing" ... :rolleyes: lol
She cooks like a pro, cute, with a very good shape, and she's good companion.
The catch? She needs someone there, permanently, the place is lonely and away from everything.
Now we will see how we solve it.
For now, I'll try to install equipment to control electric consumption, some surveillance cameras and remote access system.
There are two seasons, summer is for fishing (here January, February and March) and winter is to hunt (here in June, July and August) with crossbow, and compressed air (not gunpowder).
Probably I have convinced her to come to the big city the other 3 + 3 months of the year, leaving a forest ranger looking after the place.
Returning to the theme that originated this post, the readers, will be the hotel type, but with a unique notch to identify each card, then there will be a set of cards for each shelter, to match each card reader.
Also will place a panic button to alert of any emergency.

well...

C.U.Pals
:cool:
 
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