OT: Cheap Chinese ICs

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memi205

New Member
I bought some chinese max7219 on Ebay and I had exactly the same problem as MartinM57. (displaytest allways on)

I resolved the problem by using this program:
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/max7219_1.html

And I defined the Displaytest register ($0f) in the beginning and the first thing to do in the setup procedure was to put $00 (normal operation) in the Displaytest register.

The chinese max7219 worked perfectly after that...
 
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100317

New Member
I do not understand where you have a problem with Chinese products.
I have already bought some times products in China (LC displays , radio modules etc.) and never had problems.

My cleaning lady is original made in China, is very young (42) and I have never had problems with her. She is very diligent and very exact. She does all works in our household and also cooks on Saturday for us (original chinese kitchen). She has occupied 4 square metre of my garden to grow on it her Chinese vegetables. She is very nice and very trusting. The only negative point is: she is married. :) (I am widower).

However, did you know, that many inventions were made by Chinese: Compass, silk, porcelain, letterpress art and also the gunpowder.

The Chinese are not so silly as we believe. If you think back 30 years, there the Japanese have come to the car fairs with cameras and have all photographed to copy it then. The Chinese have that not necessary, because the west transfers his knowledge with joy to China.

Regards.
Hans

P.S. I am from Austria (original)
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Well said Hans. It's worth casually mentioning that the Chinese population (~1.3 Billion) equates to ~TWICE that of all Europe (including Russia), & ~TEN times that of Japan. The Chinese consider themselves at the centre of the world, & (aside from ICs) their recent Shenzhou-8 spacecraft launch certainly verifies advanced gunpowder skills ! With NASA's space program windback it's possible the Chinese will even take up the Mars challenge.

It's fair to say that Asian criticism may arise from folks perhaps ignorant of their present domestic technical culture. I'm an occasional China visitor ( & have been for ~35 years) & am always near gobsmacked at the hi tech developments that've emerged between my trips. In the course of the last 10 years alone much Chinese east coast city traffic has dramatically moved from bikes - scooters - cars,and Shenzhen (a 1970s fishing village & now the worlds e-producer) almost matches London in size & technology. Shenzhen has a per capita income of US$15k,but income inequality abounds -many so called "migrant workers" (from interior provinces) find it tough going... Stan.( NZ Kiwi- British background)
 
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John West

Senior Member
The Chinese produce some really crappy mechanical and electronic devices and components. They also produce nearly all of the beautifully high-tech Apple (and other brand name) cellphone and tablet PC products. You get what you pay for, wherever it's made.
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
I buy a hell of a lot of components and hardware out of China and so far never had a failed product yet, and at the price you pay, one can afford it the be worth the risk.
Often there is a listing for a UK seller amoung the Chinese sellers, and the UK seller is twice the price for 1 item compared to 10 items with free postage from China......Same part number, same brand name.....go figure.

I think they must send all the rubbish to the UK, or at least did some years back to get such a bad wrap from you guys.

I will agree some of the cheap fully made products can be border line quality.
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
John,

If you had bought it through Ebay and had complained about the fault im sure you would have been sent another one as a replacement.

I have had a few minor problems with goods from China and every time i have contacted the seller to advise them of the problem, the goods have been replaced free of charge, without a issue.

They seem to want to do anything to avoid anything other than a 5 star rating.

Here recently i needed some DS18B20 temp sensors, the local supplier wanted $5.00 a sensor, off Ebay EX China it costed me $10.00 for 10 sensors with free postage, and everyone works perfectly, to me thats worth the risk.
 
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John West

Senior Member
SAborn, I bought it at a local WalMart, so I could have easily returned it. But I bought it as part of an 18V cordless electric drill kit, dirt cheap for $20 US. That was 8 years ago and I'm still very pleased with the drill and the price. I'm still using the electric drill and the other bits - just not that one. Unless I need to shake my hand numb, which I haven't had a need for as yet.

When I opened that kit and saw the bit, I laughed. But when I checked out the quality of the $20 drill I knew the US was in for serious economic trouble. The playing field will only level out as the middle class in China rises and demands their government provide the same sort of wages, environmental protections, and safety regulations as we have in the USA.

This will surely happen. It does so in every country as they become industrial, but we must await its happening. The same goes for India and every other emerging industrial nation. Each nation rises rapidly, offering more for less, then settles back to something more reasonably maintainable based on its natural resources, its governmental structure, and the education of its population. It's all part of the growing pains suffered (and the advantages to be had) in a growing world economy.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
I've had a right mixed bag in my own experience. The worst being mechanical engineering equipment . Compared to UK, Euro and US stuff it was simply scrap metal. I'm sure there must be good stuff but I've never seen it.
And it's a well documented fact that the most counterfeit, fraudulent accreditation and wonky stuff comes from that part of the world.

On the other hand, when it's big-name branded product it is usually absolutely fine and unbelievable value - assuming the greedy middle-men don't take too much cut.
After all, when it's made on big Western designed/made/copied machines then it doesn't matter where it's made.
I've had dangerous stuff and excellent stuff. It just depended on the category.

Uninterestingly, the new Company (who I start with on Monday) make the spindle drives for many of the PCB machines in China that turn out many of the fancy goods you enjoy - including the latest iPhones apparently.
You should see the motor internals and bearing quality. It's incredible.
Ironically, some parts are actually made in China but the sensitive and precision internal parts are made in UK for quality and copyright fears. Espionage appears endemic.

The last Company I worked for had to have special self-teaching algorithms in the AC motor drive code because , apparently, certain ch motor manufacturers did motor clones, copied the nameplates but didn't get the internals the same.
It was standing joke at work.

Well, I wonder where the next place will be? Chinese wage-inflation in tech manufacture (reputable Companies) is running high apparently..
 
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John West

Senior Member
Here's the story of a Chinese AC inverter that was purchased by an internet-friend of mine:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/chinverter/chinverter.html
It's an interesting read for those of us with more in-depth engineering interests. Reading it through is like driving slowly by an automobile wreck, shaking ones head for lack of appropriate words. The author's re-engineering job is a textbook case of high quality engineering work.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Bloomin 'eck. If you forget quality for a moment that looks fantastic (literally). Not to be confused with "awesome" :)

I loved one comment from a reputable magazine review:
"...is a step down from European minis but absolutely fine when compared with a moped"
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Dippy said:
On the other hand, when it's big-name branded product it is usually absolutely fine and unbelievable value
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The main difference is we are talking about reputable companies which want to maintain their reputations and will ensure quality is up to scratch, won't pay if it isn't and will choose suppliers to ensure it is.

With direct trading with individuals you only have their word as to what an item is and what its quality will be, will have paid before you find out, and they'll have your money and likely not care beyond that.

You can find absolute rubbish to buy in Britain ( and I expect anywhere ) but having seen the eagerness with which westerners pursue low prices it's not surprising avenues to get rich on the back of that have opened up in the Far East. There's nothing new in passing off watered down ales and pigs in pokes to buyers willing to pay for those so it's not surprising that is happening as well.

It doesn't mean all Far Eastern goods are rubbish but they are getting a reputation for it, are stereotyped through it, and there is plenty that is rubbish to justify that viewpoint.
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
It has been known for some time now POWER JACK INVERTERS are pure rubbish, and they ALL blow up within months of use, so a quick google check on them should tell anyone .... do not buy... but as they are 1/4 the price of any other inverter people buy them.

I personally know of 6 people who did buy them and they all have failed, one is sitting on my bench that i was asked to repair (And i said NO) with all the faces of the mosfets have blown off.

Its such a common fault that if you contact Power Jack they will send you a handfull of mosfets to replace the blown ones.

Warning to all forum members DO NOT buy POWER JACK INVERTERS
 
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John West

Senior Member
The interesting thing about the POWER JACK was that my friend bought it expressly because it was (claimed to be) made in Taiwan, not mainland China, as he was worried about the poor quality he'd observed in other Chinese products he'd purchased. However, he still got hooked and landed in any event.

On the other hand, he did an excellent bit of work re-engineering it, and now has a reliable, quiet, sine wave inverter. It just took an incredible amount of time to re-engineer, as virtually nothing was done right in the original. It's a shame POWER JACK didn't hire him for a few weeks as a consultant to implement his changes and produce a quality product.

It does point out that junk can be produced just about anywhere unscrupulous people choose to produce it.
 
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NoSmoke

Member
Dippy said:
People aren't just referring to Chinese Made.
Of course there are some top quality manufacturers over there.

They also refer to the mega-tonnes iffy stuff shipped/sold cheaply to tight-fisted retailers/end-users all over the world usually via one or two well known selling sites.
Where does most dodgy, dangerous and fake stuff come from? Yup, you got it.


And I have a lot of experience of lower-end engineering machines and tools/cutters/bits made in that neck of the woods. Most of it was the worst quality I have ever seen. Drill bits machined backwards, things way off-centre , physically feeble, voided castings , poor materials and tapers that fitted like a sausage in the Grand Canyon.
You want 'cheapo'? You got it... in more ways than one.
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Speaking of, junk can be bought from just about any country. Just ask the Canadian Navy about the British submarines they bought a few years ago (still in drydock while the gov't spends mega$ trying to get them operational).
 
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John West

Senior Member
Can't they get them to sink?

BTW, I think there's already a thread about those subs: "Escape from gosub without using return"
 
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manuka

Senior Member
POWER JACK? Please explain ! I must lead a sheltered life, as the normal NZ understanding of this relates to a DC input socket.
 

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SAborn

Senior Member
POWER JACK? Please explain
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Stan, you must be related to a previous person here who ran for parliament (Pauline Hanson) as her answer to every question was "Please Explain"

There is one difference between the Kiwi power jack and the one refered to above, your is not and Inverter, unless you Kiwi's know something the rest of us dont.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Check Kiwi inverted power jack below. I'm still mystified (as is Google). Pauline Hanson & I have/had only "fush and chups" in common I'm pleased to relate.
 

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John West

Senior Member
I think I've read everything on the Homoludens website. I really enjoy observing the workings of a good mind as it carefully and determinedly attacks difficult problems. Besides, it's easier to read about what Manfred has done than to actually do such things myself. I think making my own RF capacitors, or making heatsinks out of coffee cans pounded flat then folded over and soldered together, is a bit much for me to do more than just sit back and appreciate. When it gets right down to it, I'm a lazy bloke.
 
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kollinsb

Member
This is my reply to post #1: (late I know but I've been busy)

If you go to an outhouse on a construction site @ 2pm don't expect it to smell like a field of freakin flowers... :)
 
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Paix

Senior Member
NoSmoke said:
Speaking of, junk can be bought from just about any country. Just ask the Canadian Navy about the British submarines they bought a few years ago (still in drydock while the gov't spends mega$ trying to get them operational).
Click to expand...
How did they get there NoSmoke. I think the expression is that they worked for us! :)

It's no accident that people sell things second hand. If they really were the best things since sliced bread they would belong to their original owners.
The way it's going you might be able to rent them back some day . . .

Think positive, the price of steel is still going up.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
My wry postings were intended to show clarification was needed. The POWER JACK brand name is so little known that even Google gags, & it's totally unknown here in NZ- thankfully! If old hands query, then newbies will be flumoxed. I've seen many such blunders over the years - confusing Lithium cells with Litmus paper/ wiring nearby pot plants for "ground" connections/ assuming a US sourced electrolytic labelled in "mF" meant milliFarads/ considering IR "wireless" remotes as RF spectrum tunable etc.

FWIW -drawing 1000s of Watts over an extended period from a 12V battery is poor design. Quite aside from stressing the battery,the massive primary currents flowing (100s of Amps) demand such heavy duty cabling that 24V (or even 48V) primary DC supplies are instead recommended. Higher input voltages mean lower currents for the same power,which of course reduces voltage drops and cable costs.

Over the last decade,and in spite of the surging cost of copper,pure sine wave inverter prices have fallen to such a satisfactory level (~$US 25-50 cents a Watt) that there seems little merit in settling for unknown offerings. I recall attending a Trace/Xantrex/Schneider seminar in 2001 when US$1 a Watt (for even a modified square wave) was considered amusingly cheap. Stan.
 
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John West

Senior Member
Here's more info on Chinese IC's: http://news.yahoo.com/officials-fake-weapons-parts-ticking-time-bomb-184240411.html
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As far as running a 3.5 KW (continuous) inverter off a car battery, I imagine that was far from Manfred's thoughts. He runs his home off a micro-hydro plant he built, (the story's on his website,) and I suspect he just has a 12V battery bank as back-up for emergencies, or might toss four big deep cycle batteries in the back of his Toyota for remote power jobs, as he lives in remote Chile. We're talking about a guy who designs, then hand-winds, multi-KW transformers in order to save a few bucks. He knows his stuff.

I've been playing with electronics nearly every day for 50 years, yet he's one of those folks I can say without a doubt knows much more electronics than I do. That's one of the things that makes reading his website so much fun. I appreciate that combination of ingenuity, elegance and sweat equity involved in bringing projects to life. That's one of the reasons I read the PICAXE Forum, as well.
 
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