New 08M2, 14M2 and 20M2 now available!

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BillyGreen1973

Senior Member
I was wondering if Rev-Ed would give us the Microchip Pic part numbers the New M2 range is based on. I think this would be useful, to allow people to download detailed datasheets from Microchip.

Datasheets, although a pain sometimes, are indespensible when designing circuits/systems etc.

Rev-ed/Technical, any chance, please?
 
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westaust55

Moderator
Likely as per the 18M2, the new chips are slighly customised and thus at best there will be a Microship which is a "good" fit rather than an exact datasheet.

Even some of Microchips own datasheets as available from their website are still watermarked on each page with "PRELIMINARY" long after the chip is released.
 
kranenborg

kranenborg

Senior Member
I have been away from this forum for some months (but not because of less interest in the picaxe) and when returning today I gladly noticed that apart from the announced 14m2 and 20m2 also the surprise 08m2 is produced, really appreciate that!

From a comparison with the data on the microchip chart I get the impression that the architectures of the 08m2 and 14m2 are very closely related to the following brand-new chips (with all tech info to be found there):

08m2: PIC12F1840, link: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en549758

14m2: PIC16F1824, link: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en546901

Technical, am I right in these assumptions?

Best regards,
Jurjen
http://www.kranenborg.org/electronics
 
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Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Due to various agreements a chip physically engraved 'PICAXE-xxx' cannot be described as a 'PICxxx' as it is not, it is a PICAXE chip.

However the 12F1840 and 16F1825/9 datasheets should make good reading for those interested in Microchip's new generation chips.
 
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srnet

Senior Member
I would be guessing that unless you order them in Zillions, Microchip are not going to produce a custom block of silicon for you, although they would be prepared to pre-program the flash with specific firmware.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
With the 08/14/18 & 20M2 arrival a grand total of ~20 different PICAXEs have now been released. A swag of the originals have long been mothballed, but some global outlets are still charging heady prices on redundant stock!

According to Tech. Supplies the new "gang of 9" are 08M2, 14M2, 18M2, 20M2, 20X2, 28X1, 28X2, 40X1, 40X2.

Features aside,can Technical please confirm that the 08M2 release now means the esteemed 08M itself -gasp!- has also been discontinued? (I note confusingly that the original AXE007 "08" seems still available.) Stan.
 
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nbw

Senior Member
manuka said:
With the 08/14/18 & 20M2 arrival a grand total of ~20 different PICAXEs have now been released. A swag of the originals have long been mothballed, but some global outlets are still charging heady prices on redundant stock!

According to Tech. Supplies the new "gang of 9" are 08M2, 14M2, 18M2, 20M2, 20X2, 28X1, 28X2, 40X1, 40X2.

Features aside,can Technical please confirm that the 08M2 release now means the esteemed 08M itself -gasp!- has also been discontinued? (I note confusingly that the original AXE007 "08" seems still available.) Stan.
Click to expand...
We need a PICAXE family tree / genealogy chart :)
 
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inglewoodpete

Senior Member
manuka said:
According to Tech. Supplies the new "gang of 9" are 08M2, 14M2, 18M2, 20M2, 20X2, 28X1, 28X2, 40X1, 40X2.

Features aside,can Technical please confirm that the 08M2 release now means the esteemed 08M itself -gasp!- has also been discontinued? (I note confusingly that the original AXE007 "08" seems still available.) Stan.
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Reading Technical's earlier comments, I think there is a "gang of 10", similar to before. The old 08 did not get much milage in the forum but had a large following in the UK school system. The 08M2LE is set to fill the shoes of the old 08.

I can't see a business case for the 08M now that the 08M2 is available. Similarly, I imagine the days of the 28x1 and 40x1 are numbered too. I have many, many x1s in reliable operation but wouldn't buy another while the x2s are available.
 
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BillyGreen1973

Senior Member
Technical said:
Due to various agreements a chip physically engraved 'PICAXE-xxx' cannot be described as a 'PICxxx' as it is not, it is a PICAXE chip.

However the 12F1840 and 16F1825/9 datasheets should make good reading for those interested in Microchip's new generation chips.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification ;)
Also thanks for the effort in expanding the Picaxe range, I wish I had found them earlier :eek:
 
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Texy

Senior Member
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Hmmmmm.......

Real-life (In Circuit) Simulation ... has a tick next to it for the new M2 devices.

Not quite strictly true (today) if the Programme Editor still does not support the Connect feature:rolleyes:
Apart from that, very welcome news on these new parts.

Texy
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
There are now 7 main production chips which we recommend for new design:

Code: 
08, 08M          -> 08M2
14M              -> 14M2
18,18,18M,18X    -> 18M2
20M              -> 20M2 or 20X2
28,28A,28X,28X1  -> 28X2
40X,40X1         -> 40X2
Older chips such as the 08M are still available to special order, however we expect most customers to now purchase the 08M2 part instead.
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Texy said:
[FONT=Arial,Bold]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Real-life (In Circuit) Simulation ... has a tick next to it for the new M2 devices.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Click to expand...
It is already supported in Logicator for flowcharts.
This feature will be included for BASIC in PEv6, which is under development.
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Although PE6 is primarily a Windows development it will also, eventually, run on mono.
 
S

srnet

Senior Member
hippy said:
No.



They do :)
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OK, fair point, but not in the true sense.

I needed to do this calc on a PICAXE, I though of giving it a go, but decided not to.

Dist=2*Asin(sqrt(sq(sin((La1-La2)/2))+cos(La1)*cos(La2)*sq(Sin((Lo1-Lo2)/2))))

(it calculates the distance between two Lat Long locations)

I can see why the PICAXES dont support 'real' trig fuctions, that line adds 8844 bytes to the ROM in Mikrobasic, by the time all the required libraries are loaded.
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
srnet said:
Dist=2*Asin(sqrt(sq(sin((La1-La2)/2))+cos(La1)*cos(La2)*sq(Sin((Lo1-Lo2)/2))))
Click to expand...
An alternative to using angles, especially as you have Cartesian co-ordinates to start with, would be to use Pythagoras; draw the two points, determine the triangle, calculate the hypotenuse. That's then two multiplies and a square root so probably quicker as well. And likely much less code space.
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
curry87 said:
@Technical is there a X3 in the pipeline ?
Click to expand...
I think the answer to that will be along the lines of; Rev-Ed will continue to develop its PICAXE range to take advantage of opportunities which arise and to enhance PICAXE users' experiences.

The PICAXE range has evolved, expanded, and now rationalised into M2 and X2 products but there's no reason to believe that's the end of the road.
 
S

srnet

Senior Member
hippy said:
An alternative to using angles, especially as you have Cartesian co-ordinates to start with, would be to use Pythagoras; draw the two points, determine the triangle, calculate the hypotenuse. That's then two multiplies and a square root so probably quicker as well. And likely much less code space.
Click to expand...
I tried it, as you say there are simpler ways of doing it, however the accuaracy was not there, even in floating point.

I needed about 5M accuracy over two points from a GPS that were about 250M apart, I seem to recall getting around a 40-50M error using trianqles.
 
P

papaof2

Senior Member
srnet said:
OK, fair point, but not in the true sense.

I needed to do this calc on a PICAXE, I though of giving it a go, but decided not to.

Dist=2*Asin(sqrt(sq(sin((La1-La2)/2))+cos(La1)*cos(La2)*sq(Sin((Lo1-Lo2)/2))))

(it calculates the distance between two Lat Long locations)

I can see why the PICAXES dont support 'real' trig fuctions, that line adds 8844 bytes to the ROM in Mikrobasic, by the time all the required libraries are loaded.
Click to expand...
I saw a simplified version of that distance calculation for the uM-FPU chip, but can't share it because of a NDA. I know that it works in one hemisphere (North America) and for distances less than 200 miles but I haven't seen test results for other parts of the world or greater distances.

John
 
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Grogster

Senior Member
Fantastic news on the new releases - well done. :)

I use the SMD 08M for several different things - am I still going to be able to buy the SMD 08M, or is it just the full-size 8-pin DIL which is no longer going to be available?

If you plan(and I expect you do) to produce SMD versions of all the M2 range, this won't be a problem for me I guess, but depending on how long that takes...
 
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nbw

Senior Member
I did notice in the picaxe store that there are some SMD versions of the new kids in there? Check it out :)
 
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Grogster

Senior Member
I will - thanks.
I don't remember seeing that SMD versions had been released yet...

EDIT: they are already on sale(the SMD 08M2) :eek:

You can ignore my post then...
 
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nbw

Senior Member
no worries :) I can see 14M2 and 20M2 in there too.

I suspect the SMD versions got overshadowed by their larger form factor PDIP brothers and sisters !!
 
D

Dave E

Senior Member
WOW. Life just gets better.
I am glad to see the 08M2. The 08M is such a versitile chip and I have always wanted a bit more code space. You folks are making things too easy.

Thanks Rev-Ed

Dave
 
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Anobium

Senior Member
The 14m2 is great, i have upgaded from a 14m for my five axis project and the performance is stunning!

I have dialogs and richness that was not possible a week ago.

First impression........ good job.
 
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fritz42_male

Senior Member
08M2 clarification

Hi all,
Can I get some clarification on the 08M2.

The literature says somewhere that the 08M2 supports up to 6 outputs but Page 10 of Section 1 of the manual still shows it as an input only?

What is the true situation please?
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
The 08M2 has 6 I/O pins, of which 1 is output only, 2 are input only and the other 3 can be used for either input or output.

The 08M2 therefore supports up to 4 outputs and up to 5 inputs.

There are two issues which come into play in any counting and described use of pins; the "I/O" terminology and the ambiguousness of 'input or output' and 'input and output', plus whether the download Serial In and Serial Out should be included in that count or not.

Unfortunately that can lead to the same PICAXE having its I/O pins counted in different ways in various places. We've noted that issue and will look at rectifying any inconsistencies which remain.
 
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BillyGreen1973

Senior Member
hippy said:
...We've noted that issue and will look at rectifying any consistencies which remain.
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:eek::eek:

Your going to mess up the rest of the manual??!

Surely it would be better to 'rectify any inconsistencies which remain'
Only kidding..:D

I must say the 08M2 was the 'suprise' in the bunch but I think it will become the favourite of a lot of people. Thanks Rev-Ed
 
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fritz42_male

Senior Member
Thanks very much Hippy

hippy said:
The 08M2 has 6 I/O pins, of which 1 is output only, 2 are input only and the other 3 can be used for either input or output.

The 08M2 therefore supports up to 4 outputs and up to 5 inputs.

There are two issues which come into play in any counting and described use of pins; the "I/O" terminology and the ambiguousness of 'input or output' and 'input and output', plus whether the download Serial In and Serial Out should be included in that count or not.

Unfortunately that can lead to the same PICAXE having its I/O pins counted in different ways in various places. We've noted that issue and will look at rectifying any inconsistencies which remain.
Click to expand...
 
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AndyGadget

Senior Member
Programming Voltage?

P107 of Manual 1 states :

. . . The lowest recommended operating voltage from these datasheets is 3V (Note
this is the ‘operating voltage’ only. You may require a higher voltage (minimum
4.5V recommended) whilst doing the actual serial download from the computer
to ensure accurate memory programming of the chip).

The '3V' obviously needs updating, but what is the minimum recommended supply voltage when programming a M2 device using an AXE027 lead?

Andy.
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
I'll have to check to get a complete answer but the M2's can write their internal program and data memories across their whole operating voltage ranges, so ( for the 20M2, from the datasheet I have ) that would be; anything between 1V8 to 5V5 is okay.

At lower voltages, there may be voltage level issues with the AXE027 which I believe is a 5V or 3V3 part, plus the internal oscillators have a wider tolerance frequency specification below 2V5.

I've been almost always using PICAXE at 3V3 without any problems, and an AXE027 download into an 08M2 just tested worked okay at 2V5.

Putting all that together I would guess the recommendation would be a 2V5 minimum, 3V preferable.
 
N

ncoplin

Member
Technical said:
Revolution Education are delighted to announce the full M2 range is now available, including the 08M2, 14M2, 18M2 and 20M2 parts.
Enjoy!
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Will certianly enjoy, thank you!

The 18M2 though looks a little feature-weak compared o the other newer M2s. Is a catch design planned? (chose the 18M2 over a 20X2 for a design... the 20M2 looks to be much better).

Cheers, Nick
 
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