Manual Says ?

S

ssm

New Member
Hi, how is it going?

Subject PICAXE-Prog. Editor manual 1

It reads as:
Inputs:An input should be above (0.8 x power supply) to be high, below (0.2 x powersupply) to be low. It is recommended, but not essential, to tie unused inputs lowvia a 10k resistor.

Question
What is meant by- 0.2x to 0.8x? MA, volts, watts, or resistor values or am I on the wrong page?

ssm
 
Y

yurif74

New Member
it mean Volts

if you use 5V power supply then you need at least 4 volt to be high and less than 1V to be low

bye
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Yes, a little ambiguous to anyone new isn't it.

It's referring to the power supply voltage.

Maybe the word 'voltage' could be inserted into Manual at some stage?
 
premelec

premelec

Senior Member
Clarify...

What is meant by- 0.2x to 0.8x? MA, volts, watts, or resistor values or am I on the wrong page?

"0.2 x Vcc to 0.8 x Vcc" should make it pretty clear - another manual clarification.
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
@ ssm : Welcome to the PICAXE forum.

@ premelec : Though for those so new to electronics or PICAXE that it is not realised that "power supply" in context means "the power supply voltage", I would venture that "Vcc" would be even less clear. Especially so when Microchip data sheets use "Vdd".
 
M

MartinM57

Moderator
My turn - but I'm sure we all know what we are talking about....

Code: 
Inputs: An input is considered as high if its input voltage is generally greater than 
0.8 x the power supply voltage; to be considered as low, its input voltage is generally less than 
0.2 x the power supply voltage.  It is recommended, but not essential, to tie unused inputs low 
via a 10k resistor
...then there's the Smart Alec who comes along next and says "what about TTL vs. Schmitt input pins"...which is why the above says generally
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
I had a little bet that the old ST vs TTL would emerge..... ;)

I agree that Vcc should be avoided.

Insertion of the word "voltage" is the easiest to type and the easiest to understand.
Maybe even a single sentence 'example' would clarify?
Or a teeny-tiny table to minimise word count ?

Maybe a Microchip-style table could be appended for 'Advanced Users" ?
(Perhaps a single page Appendix showing typical electrical specs?)

Does this really need to turn into a marathon?
 
premelec

premelec

Senior Member
Mea culpa

I meant Vdd not Vcc - however that's also a reject - :)

V+ is on the PICAXE diagrams - so why not that?
 
W

westaust55

Moderator
Considering that just a little further back up the same page is the description for Power Supply, I would think that adding a single word (voltage thus making referent to 0.8 x power supply voltage and 0.2 x power supply voltage would suffice.
 
S

ssm

New Member
Hello, I hope you all are doing fine in these hard times, and I thank you all for your great response to my question. Yes this stuff is new to me. And let me say that the first manual is written very well, please excuse my ignorance, the word power supply is sufficient. I will be back with more of these questions and hopefully I will think first.

Thank you
ssm
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Please don't feel you have upset anyone ssm. It is always handy to have feedback.
People's opinions do matter. And questions can stimulate clarification.

Many of us here have had to write instructions; sometimes th 'enthusiasm' results in overdoing the brevity.
And quite often those of us who are very 'close' to a product tend to write with the assumptions that others know more than they do.

So, all these questions will (ideally) produce little changes to Manuals and Instructions , which will hopefully improve clarity and readability - and reduce ambiguity.
It's a similar thing with reports where proof-reading by others is so important.
- and it's where many sites like Instructables (and some Wikis) sometimes fail.

So, if something is unclear then ask about it here. Don't be shy :)
 
S

ssm

New Member
Hello, no problem, ok back to the fire road from worldly wisdom.
ADC- analog to digital converter, correct?
Also page 41, testing the system, instructs to connect a series circuit of 330R and LED to pin4 and 0v. Note: I am not using the project board. Is this correct, for an 18 pin chip? For it is the reset circuit.
Next question, am I going to have problems with the enhanced serial download circuit compared to the regular serial download circuit? For I have found that sometime better, is not!
So thankfull for your helpfulness
ssn
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
ADC- analog to digital converter, correct?

Correct.

Also page 41, testing the system, instructs to connect a series circuit of 330R and LED to pin4 and 0v. Note: I am not using the project board. Is this correct, for an 18 pin chip?

All LED should be fed through a 330R (minimum) resistor.

For it is the reset circuit.

I don't understand this. Make sure you don't confuse software "pin" numbers with chip "leg" numbers.

am I going to have problems with the enhanced serial download circuit compared to the regular serial download circuit?

There isn't any real difference in operation of the two circuits, but not having the enhanced circuit can affect ADC readings; different results when the download cable is connected or disconnected.

For I have found that sometime better, is not!

I'm not sure what "better" means in context.
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Ah, the old 'leg' and 'pin' confusion ;)

I can sympathise - especially where English is not the first language.

In the Manual the PICAXEs are shown with a "Pinout and Circuit" - no mention of "leg".
"Pinout" is, as we know, the internationally recognised description.
I've never heard of "legout" . ("Legover" is another thing).

These are nice clear diagrams, but some PICAXE pins are defined as e.g. "Output 4" and the 08M as "Out 4".
And then, even with PICAXEs marked e.g. "Output 4" we are shown an example circuit using "Out 4".

So, when the example in "Testing the System" says "... to output pin 4." I can see possible confusion for the absolute novice.

Perhaps:-
1. All PICAXE pinouts should be standardised to say e.g. "Output4" etc.
2. And the example should say ".. to the pin labelled Output4"

That would remove confusion (possibly?) and then we could return to the correct usage of "pin" and "pinout" and get rid of saying "leg".
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
One problem is that the PICAXE-08M doesn't specifically have "Output Pin 4"; that can be an input or an output pin depending on programmed context. Also in context of the manual, the "output pin" in this case may also refer to an output from a board via Darlington drivers.

Use of "out" as a shortform for "output", and "in" for "input", on some diagrams often arises because of constraints of space and clarity and has not generally caused confusion. The manual does mention "leg" and is very clear in pointing out that "leg" and "pin" should not be confused. The Appendices to Manual 1 explicitly lists and correlates leg numbers with pin naming and function.

There will always be problems for "absolute novices", and especially so when trying to apply something for one thing to a different thing. No matter what "pin" terminology is used, there will, almost certainly, always be scope for confusion between software "pin" naming and chip "leg" numbering.
 
S

ssm

New Member
L.O.L.

Howdy, Hippy and Dippy :confused:
Thx Hippy, thx Dippy, it looks like I was confused with the old leg and pin confusion. So don’t confuse hardware numbers and software numbers 10-4. That was very well explained. I appreciate your time.

Hippy, “Improved” more protection
I have found that sometimes better, is not always a better thing. The more you add the more problems you find, besides, my daddy told me that. Enhanced serial download circuit compared to the regular serial download circuit, is one better then the other? I thought so. Why, because the manual said so. Did I get that wrong? You guys have helped me a lot thanks.

Now I have it all connected, powered, with the programming editor. I do not know the needed information in the options- mode settings. I read the number on the chip (what a job)-pic16f88ip. Also can’t find the run button. Can you help?
ssm
 
W

Wayne62

New Member
Picaxes are made using Microchip PICs. The Picaxe Manual 1 page 13 lists the Picaxe and the PIC it was made with. The 16F88 is the 18X. The "Program" button will download the program and run it on the Picaxe.
 
premelec

premelec

Senior Member
Options

Load the editor - at the top of the screen find "options" [if you haven't already been presented with the options screen] - select the button next to your chip. If you have the chip connected you can look for it's 'version' as well - select that if you want to see if you are communicating with the PICAXE chip - Nothing like experience to get you going so keep on!
 
E

eclectic

Moderator
Some answers and a question.

See Manual 1, page 13.

Then, Programming Editor.
View > Options > Firmware.

Then, Programming Editor
> Program (or f5)

Where is "the pit"?

e
 
S

ssm

New Member
way to go!

Hello, finally it works now I can start playing with the program.
Thx wayne, thx premelec and thx eclectic, could not have done it with out your help.:D
ssm
 
S

ssm

New Member
Where is the pit?

Hi ,eclectic :)
Pressure indicator transmitter, a BBQ, a seed, an abyss, wait a minute, I know this guy who told me about a pit that he saw on the island called Patmos in the Mediterranean and he saw them. Then one of them opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Note: “the locusts have no king, yet all of them march in rank.” This is interesting; they have a king over them. They have a king. That's fascinating. You say, "Why is that so fascinating?" Because, the locusts have no king." The point being, you can't wipe out a locust swarm by killing the king, they don't have one. Nobody can figure out where the brain power is in a locust swarm. So when it says here they have a king, that's saying these aren't insects. These locusts have a king. It even tells us his name, he's the one of the abyss. He's head over the pit. Is that the pit you are asking about?
Ssm
 
M

manie

Senior Member
SSM: You assume all are of the same faith. Maybe not, so a long sermon might go unheard/unread.... the question was simple really:;)
where is the pit?
Click to expand...
I thought a simple answer like " it is here at xxxx yyyy zzzzz" or maybe "I don't want to say as I am obviously not happy with the place, therefore I call it the pit :rolleyes:" would suffice ?:)
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Well, a very flowery reply by ssm. Psychologists would find it very interesting.

"Pit" is also slang for "bed" - so he/she must be a student :)
 
S

ssm

New Member
From were Am I You say?

Ok I will tell you were I am from, but first lets see if you can guess. :eek:

I am from the city of the fallen angels (demons) and the state mottos are Minerva, grizzly bear, grapes for wine, grain from farming, miners for gold, sailing ships, and Eureka

ssm
 
S

ssm

New Member
Hello, manie ;)
I am from Los Angeles California

Hey dippy, I am glad you had a good time.:confused:

I am learning a new language here. Last week I never even heard of BASIC commands and syntax. peek and poke commands. Now I am trying to picture- w0 = b1 : b0, and b0 = bit7: bit6: bit5: bit4: bit3: bit2: bit1: bit0 I have a headache! I need Zoloft. lol

The main simulation panel is very nice a great help I think. But this stuff is very hard for me. Does any one have any words of wisdom for me? Well back I go to manual 1
ssm
 
M

MPep

Senior Member
Advice: yeah plenty, not all of it useful though :D

In all seriousness though: When thinking of a project, break it down into simple parts, and write code to suit.
I often end up writing part of the overall code, and test that. Once I know it works, start on the next section.
Once all the sections are sorted out individually, combine them into the total project code that you are after.

Things to keep in mind are what RAM locations you are using. It helps to have them written down at the top of the code section within #REM and #ENDREM statements. Something like this:
Code: 
RAM allocation:
B0 = 10's of hours
B1 =  1's of hours            
B2 = 10's of minutes
B3 =  1's of minutes
B4 = 10's of seconds
B5 =  1's of seconds

W5 = loop counter
Read the manual, keep your mind open to alternative ways of doing the same thing, and if stuck....ASK here (the forum).

Most of us are only too pleased to help. We may not give to the exact answer you were after, as sometimes a hint is better. This way you learn more!

Hope this helps.

MPep.
 
M

manie

Senior Member
mpep: Aren't you guys the HINT MASTERS ! But true, it sets you going in search of the answer from a clue given. It has certainly helped me a lot....
 
S

ssm

New Member
Thank you MPEP that was helpfull.

Hello, folks :D
It was a great day today, it rained almost all day. I love it! I can’t even imagine how much power is involved in converting all that water vapor into liquid water. It’s about 1000 BTU’s per pound. A little more then eight pound in a gallon of water, which means about 8000 BTU’s. That’s equivalent to the power it takes to make one half of a ton of ice in one hour. Now multiply that by how many gallons of rain water. :eek:
Now I have a question for you, in manual 2 basic commands, page 5 at top. I don’t understand why it says in first paragraph fourth sentence down:- Labels must start with a letter or underscore (not digit), and are defined with a colon : at the marker position.- Defined with a colon it says, but in the example the labels are defined with an apostrophe. Why?
I hope you had a nice day too! :)
ssm
 
Last edited:
W

westaust55

Moderator
I think that you are confusing labels and remarks.

On page 5 the you reference,

main:
is a label


‘ switch on output 1
Is a remark
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Yes, just to expand:
A label is a thing for both YOU and your code and uses a colon.
Try to think of the other thing , which uses an apostrophe, as a 'comment' just to remind you.


You can tell the code to jump to another place in your code.
Code: 
StartOfMyCode:

...
....
If Pin0 = 0 then
  GoTo StartOfMyCode        ' Aha a button is pressed, lets start again!
Endif
So, "StartOfMyCode" is a label that the code can use AND you can recognise.
And the message 'Aha... etc. is a note for you to remind you what it's doing.
(The message does NOT get included in the compiled programme so does NOT use space)
It's a GOOD IDEA to include comments/messages ESPECIALLY if you ever expect others to check your programming.
Old lags will remember REMind.

A lot of people use a colon type label to indicate sections of code.
Reason? Many Programming Editors and IDEs list the labels in a window, so it makes navigating around a loooong programme a lot easier.

Variables.
A word is 2 bytes long
1 byte is made of 8 bits . By-eight , say it loud, by-eight, have a Scotch, say it loud again... say it quickly... sounds like 'byte' - yes?.
Does this image help with your bits?
(I like pictures - so much easier than words in many cases)
 

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