Rickharris
Senior Member
So mount the LEDs on the person? I think I would be smart enough to cover them with my hand,shirt, Camo hat etc to avoid detection.
Laser Tag & circuit ideas
- Thread starter CaptainTuna
- Start date
Andrew Cowan
Senior Member
No more than you could cover sensors on yourself...
CaptainTuna
Member
Yesterday i was kind of expecting a flaw, but it was too late (bed time) to understand what it was. So today i thought again about it and in fact there is a flaw:
How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?
This kind of system would involve some kind of radiowave link between all the players. I am not totally discarding this idea though, it sounds like it could be more precise than the original way.
@ Ruzz: thanks for the information. I'll have a check even if i'm not planning on selling this. If it will work in the future i plan on doing something like lasertagparts.com, releasing the schematics and everything and make it some kind of open source project.
RESEARCH RESULTS:
i found a couple of interesting things. First a "super beam" LED that is intended to be driven at a pulsed current of up to 4A:http://www.tech-led.com/data/FL940-03-80.pdf
...and this could mean longer range.
Secondly...i checked out optek VCSELs as someone mentioned before (dippy or hippy...i'll never learn to distinguish these two names
) and i have some doubts about them. They cost something like 15$ at Newark, but that's not what i'm worried about.
This is what worries me:
ok it says you can't stare at it using optics...what if it enters a scope? And would anybody be playing with these things if they saw one of those stickers? I still want to do some research on lasers though, because professional systems use them.
How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?
This kind of system would involve some kind of radiowave link between all the players. I am not totally discarding this idea though, it sounds like it could be more precise than the original way.
@ Ruzz: thanks for the information. I'll have a check even if i'm not planning on selling this. If it will work in the future i plan on doing something like lasertagparts.com, releasing the schematics and everything and make it some kind of open source project.
RESEARCH RESULTS:
i found a couple of interesting things. First a "super beam" LED that is intended to be driven at a pulsed current of up to 4A:http://www.tech-led.com/data/FL940-03-80.pdf
...and this could mean longer range.
Secondly...i checked out optek VCSELs as someone mentioned before (dippy or hippy...i'll never learn to distinguish these two names
) and i have some doubts about them. They cost something like 15$ at Newark, but that's not what i'm worried about.This is what worries me:
ok it says you can't stare at it using optics...what if it enters a scope? And would anybody be playing with these things if they saw one of those stickers? I still want to do some research on lasers though, because professional systems use them.
Yes, lasers can be hazardous.
And I assume if someone stood like a statue aiming at you and you stood like a statue looking along the beam with your scope then after a while it may cause damage.
AND the other 'someone' would have to keep pressing their trigger.
AND the beam is modulated.
Probablity burnt eye-balls? x%
If I were you I'd contact the manufacturers for their advice.
If the Big Boys are using lasers then surely.....?
As for that LED.
Without focussing optics I can't seeing it being any good.
Divergence of 15o (30o?) as it stands.
You'd shoot several people at the same time if they were having a chat or in a friendly huddle.
Do some 'solid angle' calcs.
"How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?"
Put a peeper on the receiver.
Or give them an electric shock.
(Assuming optical Tx in Gun and people wearing a IR Rx array?)
A very interesting project. I wish you good luck with it.
And I assume if someone stood like a statue aiming at you and you stood like a statue looking along the beam with your scope then after a while it may cause damage.
AND the other 'someone' would have to keep pressing their trigger.
AND the beam is modulated.
Probablity burnt eye-balls? x%
If I were you I'd contact the manufacturers for their advice.
If the Big Boys are using lasers then surely.....?
As for that LED.
Without focussing optics I can't seeing it being any good.
Divergence of 15o (30o?) as it stands.
You'd shoot several people at the same time if they were having a chat or in a friendly huddle.
Do some 'solid angle' calcs.
"How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?"
Put a peeper on the receiver.
Or give them an electric shock.
(Assuming optical Tx in Gun and people wearing a IR Rx array?)
A very interesting project. I wish you good luck with it.
CaptainTuna
Member
As for the LED, well yes for sure i'd have to lens that. I only meant that it could be cool since it can take 4A. As far as i've read the bad thing about lasers used in these games is that they are IR so you don't have the protection you have with a visible light laser (as soon as one of those ends up in your eye you blink and move your head away, but not with IR)
As for the "How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?", i meant if i am using the "LEDs on body and sensor in the barrel" setup, the one we talked about before.
As for the "How do you tell the person you are shooting that he got shot?", i meant if i am using the "LEDs on body and sensor in the barrel" setup, the one we talked about before.
Well, I don't know the legal or Health&Safety aspects.
They quite rightly tend to err on the side of safety and worst-case situations.
But we could discuss this here til the cows come home.
Maybe its time for you to do some technical research?
I find it all a bit strange. No-one seems to mind being flashed at by the lasers at a Supermarket checkout.
But fire some wimpy modulated IR beam at someone's big toe for 0.1 seconds and aaargh you've blinded me.
I get confused between sensible/valid safety concerns and Real World practicality.
I wouldn't worry at all if you aimed a baby I/R laser at me from 20 feet and pressed the button for a tenth of a second.
The chance of you getting me in the eye are tiny and the chance of any damage occurring even less.
Its all about energy/time/area after all.
And I think you can get optical plastic filters which attenuate near IR, so maybe there are IR laser goggles?
Or you could limit rate-of-fire or modulation or divergance to a 'sensible' level.
As for the "How do you tell..." - what a tricky one.
Why not just copy (and improve upon?) what the Big Boys do?
But a nice project nonetheless - and I wish I was doing it
PS. I haven't read in detail that data sheet on that LED.
BUT, from experience using OD-100 and OD-880 IR LEDs you will have to pay careful attention to pulse length and duty when you start cranking up the Amps - otherwise poof or serious degradation in O/P.
I was using a lensed system with the above LED + Ph/Diode for people detection.
They quite rightly tend to err on the side of safety and worst-case situations.
But we could discuss this here til the cows come home.
Maybe its time for you to do some technical research?
I find it all a bit strange. No-one seems to mind being flashed at by the lasers at a Supermarket checkout.
But fire some wimpy modulated IR beam at someone's big toe for 0.1 seconds and aaargh you've blinded me.
I get confused between sensible/valid safety concerns and Real World practicality.
I wouldn't worry at all if you aimed a baby I/R laser at me from 20 feet and pressed the button for a tenth of a second.
The chance of you getting me in the eye are tiny and the chance of any damage occurring even less.
Its all about energy/time/area after all.
And I think you can get optical plastic filters which attenuate near IR, so maybe there are IR laser goggles?
Or you could limit rate-of-fire or modulation or divergance to a 'sensible' level.
As for the "How do you tell..." - what a tricky one.
Why not just copy (and improve upon?) what the Big Boys do?
But a nice project nonetheless - and I wish I was doing it
PS. I haven't read in detail that data sheet on that LED.
BUT, from experience using OD-100 and OD-880 IR LEDs you will have to pay careful attention to pulse length and duty when you start cranking up the Amps - otherwise poof or serious degradation in O/P.
I was using a lensed system with the above LED + Ph/Diode for people detection.
Andrew Cowan
Senior Member
Just a side note, if you do LEDs on body and sensor in barrel, I would love to see photos of the event. Cameras pick up IR, so all the photos would have everyone surrounded by glowing orbs of light.
A
A
CaptainTuna
Member
You are right i should start with something technical. Only thing that keeps from doing this is that i wanted to gather some informations about what i should use for this project and the fact i don't have too much time (i'll have much more in a month).
as for research, well, i've done communication and sound generation already so maybe i should get same free Laser diode sample from optek, or get myself some sort of tube and some lenses and start playing with LEDs' focal lenghts.
Ah one last thing: what do you mean "i wish i was doing it"? I may have got it completely wrong but it sounded as if you thought this project was sort of "mine". I want to make sure these is NOT what you are thinking, since this is in no way what i have in mind.
I'll say it in other ways: feel free to pick it up whenever you want, modify it however you want, etc.... if i have come up with some of the ideas i have in mind it's only thanks to you guys who helped me so really don't see it as MY project, see it just as the community's project.
Final thought : i am worried not to have made myself understandable by what i've just said, oh darn!
EDIT: in response to Andrew : i may try that but i think, if i properly understood what i've read last night after googling around, that the smaller the beam coming out, the less the distance, so it might not be the appropriate design. But still i want to try, because if i can get an acceptable range it'll definetly be the best option.
EDIT(2):Oops sorry misread your post : check by previous post, it says i need some kind of wireless link for that ( i guess...), any advice?
as for research, well, i've done communication and sound generation already so maybe i should get same free Laser diode sample from optek, or get myself some sort of tube and some lenses and start playing with LEDs' focal lenghts.
Ah one last thing: what do you mean "i wish i was doing it"? I may have got it completely wrong but it sounded as if you thought this project was sort of "mine". I want to make sure these is NOT what you are thinking, since this is in no way what i have in mind.
I'll say it in other ways: feel free to pick it up whenever you want, modify it however you want, etc.... if i have come up with some of the ideas i have in mind it's only thanks to you guys who helped me so really don't see it as MY project, see it just as the community's project.
Final thought : i am worried not to have made myself understandable by what i've just said, oh darn!
EDIT: in response to Andrew : i may try that but i think, if i properly understood what i've read last night after googling around, that the smaller the beam coming out, the less the distance, so it might not be the appropriate design. But still i want to try, because if i can get an acceptable range it'll definetly be the best option.
EDIT(2):Oops sorry misread your post : check by previous post, it says i need some kind of wireless link for that ( i guess...), any advice?
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Eh? Are you reading something into a casual statement of encouragement?
I realise it can't be yours as many have done it before
"..I wish I was doing it"
means:-
It sounds really interesting/fun and I wish I had the time to have a try at it myself, but I haven't so I envy you having the time to undertake an exciting project like this and I wish I was doing it.
Nothing more , nothing less , nothing sinister
Keep at it.
(That means be patient and persevere and you'll end up with something good).
I realise it can't be yours as many have done it before
"..I wish I was doing it"
means:-
It sounds really interesting/fun and I wish I had the time to have a try at it myself, but I haven't so I envy you having the time to undertake an exciting project like this and I wish I was doing it.
Nothing more , nothing less , nothing sinister
Keep at it.
(That means be patient and persevere and you'll end up with something good).
CaptainTuna
Member
Ah sorry about that
Being non-english (italian) i find it hard sometimes to understand these "sayings" (i know it's not the right word but i'm sure you got what i mean)
Being non-english (italian) i find it hard sometimes to understand these "sayings" (i know it's not the right word but i'm sure you got what i mean)
CaptainTuna
Member
Little update:
i am now searching for a site that sell VCSELs. Optek's are not fine for my project as they do not come in Class 1 Laser type. They only come in 3B and in 1M. 1M means that the beam diverges! :O ... And in the safety precautions it says not to look at it through optics, so having an unlensed-widebeam-laser is something like having an unlensed led...
i am now searching for a site that sell VCSELs. Optek's are not fine for my project as they do not come in Class 1 Laser type. They only come in 3B and in 1M. 1M means that the beam diverges! :O ... And in the safety precautions it says not to look at it through optics, so having an unlensed-widebeam-laser is something like having an unlensed led...
"so having an unlensed-widebeam-laser is something like having an unlensed led"
- good observation.
But it could focus nicely with a good lens.
It's a tricky one isn't it.
The ratings for Opteks (that I have looked at) tend to be based at 7mA and the graph shows the a reduction in lasering power as I-forward reduces to the threshold point.
In addition you will have brief pulses and modulated so the actual 'damaging' power would be way below the rated o/p. But still it would be rated as a hazard. Stupid isn't it.
And obviously you don't want to go to the expense of product testing etc.
Sorry, I can't help - I was merely whinging about 'official' inflexible ratings.
I assume you've had a good long Google?
Otherwise it's back to flat-top LED + good lens.
Eclectic likes Googling for others - give him a chance and he'll find something for you
PS. Have you tried Digikey?
- good observation.
But it could focus nicely with a good lens.
It's a tricky one isn't it.
The ratings for Opteks (that I have looked at) tend to be based at 7mA and the graph shows the a reduction in lasering power as I-forward reduces to the threshold point.
In addition you will have brief pulses and modulated so the actual 'damaging' power would be way below the rated o/p. But still it would be rated as a hazard. Stupid isn't it.
And obviously you don't want to go to the expense of product testing etc.
Sorry, I can't help - I was merely whinging about 'official' inflexible ratings.
I assume you've had a good long Google?
Otherwise it's back to flat-top LED + good lens.
Eclectic likes Googling for others - give him a chance and he'll find something for you
PS. Have you tried Digikey?
Actually, in this case, as in certain others,I just knew he couldn't contain himself
I am staying well out of offering
any advice regarding
proggy / poisonous / powerful / potentially-painful pursuits.
e
CaptainTuna
Member
Ahhhh! Haven't found any nice Laser so far! They are all divergent! There are a few non divergent at like 150$ each or some "bloody hell!" price like that. Well...as for now i will stick to high power (1.5A) LEDs to see how they work. To simplify the lensing process i thought i might get a few of these :
http://it.farnell.com/arcolectric-switches/a104800aab/led-holder/dp/145470
I would glue a plastic circle with a hole at the back of the silencer and then plug the LED mount in, and regulate the distance between LED and lens with a few washers, if needed. Now i just need to order them.
http://it.farnell.com/arcolectric-switches/a104800aab/led-holder/dp/145470
I would glue a plastic circle with a hole at the back of the silencer and then plug the LED mount in, and regulate the distance between LED and lens with a few washers, if needed. Now i just need to order them.
What a coincidence!
I tried that very same method some years ago in conjunction with some Siemens SFH485 flat top LEDs. I found that some rubber o-rings fitted a treat inside.
I was however using a different make. The ones I used had awful lenses but certainly the performance was better than any domed LED I had used.
But still not a patch on flat-top LED plus a CTC-Coil acrylic 20mm lens.
Anyway, its a first step.
I tried that very same method some years ago in conjunction with some Siemens SFH485 flat top LEDs. I found that some rubber o-rings fitted a treat inside.
I was however using a different make. The ones I used had awful lenses but certainly the performance was better than any domed LED I had used.
But still not a patch on flat-top LED plus a CTC-Coil acrylic 20mm lens.
Anyway, its a first step.
SilentScreamer
Senior Member
I'm not sure if this will be of any use but I'll post it anyway - http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=11712