housing affordability is it just australia that is over priced?

[toxicmouse]

demonic, where did you live? presumably in Kuala Belait? working for an oil related business?

i simply could not eat enough of the seafood there. i usually walked into a restaurant and pointed at the most expensive item on the menu, which was rarely more than £3. in truth i don't think 5 seafood meals a day did me any good.

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

i lived in KL (kuala lumpur) more specifically Jalan Bomoh
i was there for 8 years and my father worked for Olivetti
infact the very keyboard i've got on my server is from one of their 486's it weight 1.5 kg is about 20 years old and still works fine. they used to make some good stuff i think i still have one of their first 486's around here somwhere

Edited by - demonicpicaxeguy on 03/08/2007 09:11:05

 

[Dippy]

"... keyboard .... is about 20 years old and still works fine.."
I reckon the Shift key is a bit intermittent.

I love this forum; even when you have an irrelevant thread (though interesting I confess) it goes off-thread after a little while.

6 out of 7 of my Chinese made CFLs have failed within 2 years... is this really good for the environment?
1 out of 5 of my German-made CFLs have failed in 6 years.
You get what you pay for - but sadly all those Greenies don't seem to notice.
Dump CFLs, go for LEDs.

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

One of the things i think that makes this forum work really well is that rev-ed allow threads to go off topic and the creation of off topic threads where asa few of the forums i used to frequent it's strictly a case of you're only allowed to talk about one thing and that was it, where as here there is a realy good social atmosphere

i must confess i check this forum at least twice as often as i check my emails

Edited by - demonicpicaxeguy on 03/08/2007 11:21:43

 

[D n T]

My turn,

The state governemnt tells the pulbic here in West Oz that nurses, teachers and police are highly valued, yet we are among the lowest paid for our education and jobs.
I am a teacher and my wife is a nurse and to buy even the most basic house we are paying out one wage each week and the politicians won't give us a pay rise but they vote themselves one whenever they can. Maybe the politicians should go and work in the hospitals or teacher at a public school for a month or go out and stop domestics and fights etc. Not likely.

Maybe we all need to get together and build a PICAXE powered " SUPER WEAPON THAT CAN CHANGE PEOPLE WILLS, AND BEND THEM TO OUR OWN WANTS, AH HA HA HA !!!!
tomorrow the world!!!

Anyway its good to know that its not just OZ that is going to hell in a hand basket because of some politicians short sightedness and greed.

I hope global warming gives them skin cancer and theirt coastal mansons get washed away by rising sea levels.

I hope all their chickens die and they can't sell the wire netting.

I hope thei ears turn to A###oles and SH#T on their shoulders.

Have a nice day.

Edited by - D n T on 03/08/2007 15:12:16

Edited by - D n T on 03/08/2007 15:12:50

 

[Dippy]

Blimey!

 

[BeanieBots]

And some just sit on the fence.

 

[hippy]

I'm with DnT on this - it's enough to make one scream. Here we are, wage slaves, working numerous hours per days with hours of commuting on top, with prices outstripping income and most seem to be slowly sinking into the mire. Many are stressed out, have little time for friends or family and have a life of little more than work and sleep. The system itself ( in the UK at least ) makes it ear impossible to even drop out and become self-sufficient in a field. You either play the game the way the system wants it or you're forced to play the game the way the system wants it.

I cannot believe that this is the sum of existence. There's got to be a better way. Unfortunately, while people can see nothing wrong with what we have, or do nothing about it, the system isn't going to change.

 

[craigcurtin]

Hate to be a naysayer here - but - we live in Sydney in Australia (arguably the most expensive/least affordable in Australia).

I look at my wifes parents and my parents and when and where they bought their first homes - they were crappy suburbs, pretty crappy houses and they were all prepared to knuckle down into a 25 year mortgage.

They used to eat mince and crap meat a couple of times a week and a big treat was a roast on the weekend. They did not have overseas trips until after they were 40 and did not finish paying off their mortgages until they were 50+. A big night out was the local cinema a couple of times a week - and this was in the late 60's/early 70's when they had 17% interest rates etc.

Now the people who want to buy for the first time , also want to travel on overseas holidays every year or so, have the plasma TV's, latest cars, live in something fairly new, have all the latest electronic gizmos etc.

I have run my own business for the last 15 years employing around 150 staff during that time, the majority of whom were in the age bracket between 18 and 35. I could count on the one hand the number of them who had any fiscal responsibility and a life plan that involved more than the next party and paycheck

Yes things are expensive now, yes to get started seems expensive, and yes maybe over time our OZ cultural bias towards the 1/4 acre block will have to change,but i also think a lot of people need a reality check in terms of what their expectation levels are.

So many young people now are the product of the baby boomer generation and have had everything handed to them on a plate (mostly by the parents who thought they were doing the right thing)

Sorry for the rant - it is one of my pet hate topics

Craig

 

[craigcurtin]

Hippy, have a read of the books by Robert Kiyosaki - in particular Rich Dad - poor Dad.

You are right there has to be a better way, than what we are all doing today.

Craig

 

[Dippy]

This has all got very deep and some good points made. My experience leans towards Craig's even though I live in UK, where it is probably, on average, the most expensive place to live.

Yes, the world owes me a living.

And the people who wish to roam around from field to field eating rabbits still demand their kids go to a free school and they demand free health service and handouts to fix them up. Who pays?

It's not what you do it's the way that you do it. And it could be a lot better.

 

[Rickharris]

A better way? Well assuming you want a NHS or affordable for everyone health care, unemployment benefit, rubbish collection, street lights, a police force, roads to drive on, Library facilities, child care, and numerous other things then you are committing to pay taxes.

The Self sufficient idea is possible if a) you own land, 4 or 5 acres for a family, are prepared to work hard and continuously with constant worries over crop failure, flood, drought you can grow/produce most of what you need for a staple existence.

You still have to pay council tax but you would get a substantial reduction if you prove you do not benefit from those things council tax pays for. If you do not "work" and so earn and therefore do not pay tax you still need to pay National insurance, although there are limits, to pay for health care/old age pension rights.

You can make most of what you need, grow most/all of your food, generate your own power. BUT you still need industry to manufacture the raw materials, metals/transistors/PC's, fabric et al. and they expect to be paid for their work.

Sadly yes the system is enforced on us as a product of the society we live in, look to the average citizen in Brunei no tax but then again most of them have very little money anyway. Fall seriously sick and what happens?
Live outside a city/large habitation where is the electricity? I don't know for sure because I haven't been there but I guess in short supply.

We have to conform or the wider benefits we enjoy would not be available they struggle under the present system but forget not that it is only a few short years since education was freely available for all (1870+), the NHS was established (1948) and a 'national' police force existed (1700s).


Edited by - rickharris on 03/08/2007 18:36:16

 

[hippy]

I can certainly empathise with Craig's story of his parents. Having worked hard all his life I was quite stunned at how little my father had ( in financial and asset terms ) when he reached the end of the road. On the other hand, there are many people who have a small fortune from the sales of parent's houses, through simply having been lucky enough to be on the right side of the system.

It's this great disparity which I find hard to stomach, it creates huge social divides and problems. At some point it's all going to come crashing in on itself, or we are going to end up with some very extreme class divisions and all the associated problems with that.

 

[manuka]

We're certainly shooting off on a tangent from both microcontrollers &amp; Oz. housing costs! Mmm- so it's the great British divide now. Any thoughts on recent books such as David Cannadine's <A href='http://www.amazon.co.uk/Class-Britain-David-Cannadine/dp/0140249540 ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a> or Ferdinand Mount's provocative and ruthlessly frank &quot;Mind the Gap&quot; <A href='http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Gap-Class-Divide-Britain/dp/1904977324/ref=pd_sim_b_1/026-3258561-8283615' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>

It's fair to say that globally a much higher quality of life is now possible than in even Harold MacMillan's &quot;You never had it so good&quot; era (1957 - long memory!). Older UK forum readers may recall post WW2 rationing &amp; slum housing that today you wouldn't keep a dog in, &amp; incomes at the &quot;30 bob a week&quot; level. Sure - repression &amp; exploitation abounds in many lands, but in democratic nations it's now really up to the individual to seize the day,&quot;put in the hard yards&quot; &amp; run with opportunities that have rarely been so abundant. The entire Western world is super short of tradesmen for starters-some of the richest men in town are glaziers,plumbers &amp; electricians! Training in such fields can let new entrants in the door in under 5 years.

EXTRA: You don't need to go to Iraq for mega incomes either. Here in NZ the &quot;white gold&quot; dairying boom has school leaver teens being offered a a king's ransom just for farm work, while the WA (Western Australian) mining bonanza has more $$$$$$ jobs on offer than people to take them. Go West young man -have the earth move for you in WA maybe <A href='http://www.recruitwest.com.au/JL/jobs/inc_joblistingmanager.asp?ItemID=247&amp;CategoryID=437' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>. And &quot;Yes !&quot; - they even speak English (of sorts) there too.

Edited by - manuka on 03/08/2007 22:35:07

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

i really feel for nurses,teachers,police and many other government employed people

for those of us who live in australia you'll notice that every decision that is made is uasully the cheapest and quickest bandaid solution to a problem to make it look like somthing has been done , (we've got a local road like that) i imagine most other governments around the world are similar

gazing into my crystal ball i think what the future holds in terms of housing is going to be smaller and smaller blocks more and more people forced in to units
with the price of housing going up and up and up class seperation is getting bigger and quite noticably, it's just not talked about publically

being in the water industry locating water leaks it's getting in to doom and gloom teritory there too

we've got politicians trying to stick in an undersized desal plant that is going to provide 7% percent of sydney's water (and that would be on a very good day) then they are claiming that it will run on &quot;green energy&quot; the source of which won't meet demand for the desal plant.

the light at the end of the &quot;tunnel&quot; is that pretty soon cloud seeding activities in drought affected areas is getting a great deal cheaper,along with various other bits of new technology

then with the price of electricity going up slowly and generator efficency getting better fairly quickly it's getting cheaper to generate your own power than it is to get it off the grid ,as it already marginally is to a point

at the end of the day i don't think we could honestly ask government to pay and subsudise every little whim and itch that comes along,
and with our various governments running the countries like buisnesses it'd be nice to get what we pay for occasionally.

 

[hippy]

manuka : <i>in democratic nations it's now really up to the individual to seize the day, &quot;put in the hard yards&quot; &amp; run with opportunities that have rarely been so abundant. </i>

I wish it were so simple.

Consider the person comfortably off who then falls on hard times, because rents or mortgages out-strip income, their job disappears, is relocated or goes overseas. If there are no decent jobs it's low paid ones and one's no better off. If jobs are in more expensive areas one cannot afford to move into them. If it means relocating to a cheaper area, there will be no way back as the house prices in the left area soars while the cheaper lags, the bridge is burnt on the way out.

Ex-professionals cannot easily get the lower paid jobs because employers want the less ambitious who won't move on as soon as a better opportunity arises and won't be easily satisfied with the pittance they are paid. They often do not have the exact skills needed for the jobs on offer and there are few inter-career training courses. Age discrimination is rife, and few employers will take on an older person unless they already have a proven track record in the exact field the job requires.

There are perfectly capable people who cannot get jobs because they don't fit the artificial requirements of the HR department or the demand for 'killer instinct' or 'leadership qualities' which seem to be the latest fads.

In the good old days engineers did their job - and did it well - until they retired. These days it's expected that engineers will become managers, will become senior managers, and anyone who just wants to be the best engineer ever doesn't even get a look-in.

I don't think the topic is straying far from the housing issue, it's all part of an integrated problem; house prices, low salaries, centralisation of employment, lack of local professional and technical jobs, lack of home grown engineering and manufacturing industry in general, plus globalisation which puts profit before people, pulling the rug of job security from under people's feet and leaving them out on a limb through no fault of their own.

It's an age old problem; have people with specialised skills and they are stuffed when that job market collapses, if you don't then we don't have the right people to do the job to the best level possible.

It's easy to believe there are plenty of opportunities ( and in some countries there may be ), but reality looks so much different when that rug is pulled and there's no safety net. The helping hand people need to pull themselves up is rarely there, and not everyone is best equipped to make a go of it without help.

Edited by - hippy on 04/08/2007 02:47:52

 

[Brietech]

some random thoughts:

1) It used to be that people had the good sense to die around age 50-60. This has a few macro effects: a) much higher housing turnover, b) higher job turnover (you can be employed for life easier if your working life is only ~20-30 years), c) with a lower average age, overall wages are lower, so the population is poorer and housing is similarly cheaper. It's impossible for a 20 something year old to compete against a 50 year old when it comes to housing for a variety of reasons. Nowadays people liver forever, though, and it drives prices up (and costs...pension systems are unsustainable if people draw from them for ~30 years).

2) Re: politicians vs. teachers, nurses, etc. It is relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of things when politicians get raises. In gross terms, there is such a small number of politicians compared to the (vast!) number of teachers, nurses, etc. out there, so even if they get a raise every year, it just doesn't effect that many things. In the states, we have 5-600 congress people, and they all make $1-200k/year, so even a 50k/year increase is only $30 million. Even 14 years ago (the last year i could find stats for), the US had roughly 3 million teachers though. For them to get a $1000 raise (a pittance, these days), roughly the same group of people (the country) has to come up with an extra $3 billion instead. That said, it certainly does suck (my girlfriend is a teacher).

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

another thing over here in Australia is the blatent waste of government funds that goes on our local councils are usaully good at it the council i live under for example
have taken 5 years to build a 800m stretch of roadway, it's a dual carriageway with two lanes on each with a bit of landscaping and with sound proof bariers on each side
and they still aren't finished so far it blown out the budget several times over

yet

a motorway company managed to build a 2 lane good quality(and believe me it's very smooth) motorway 40km long complete with 38 odd bridges pedestrian pathways a massive intersection that joins 3 very big motorways

it cost just under 2billion and was completed in i think just under 3 years
and was 8 months ahead of schedule

yet even still during the weekdays there is still landscape work still going on on this stretch of road and they haven't even started on any of the other surrounding roads

where we currently live is in a newish estate where the surrounding roads we're meant for serving farmers and the like

 

[manuka]

Although at cynical midlife (!)myself,I'm from <b>&quot;the glass is still half full&quot; </b> optimistic school of thought. While certainly being horrified with house prices (having 4 kids who are just facing up to this adult nightmare...),I enthuse over the massive benefits of today's easy/cheap global travel &amp; communications plus cheap technology for starters. Western life has really never been so good, nor offered so many opportunities both for the enterprising &amp; diligent.

Although a long term &quot;Kiwi&quot;,I've lived in many countries &amp; travelled widely (mostly at my own expense) &amp; recommend an extended jaunt in Africa for those weary of the West. Zimbabwe <A href='http://www.zimbabwesituation.com ' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>,where the adult life expectancy is staggeringly now just ~37-39 years,is particularly eye opening... Stan

UPDATE: Just checked on Zimbabwe latest figures. Female life expectancy 34 years,&amp; male 37. For a teacher it typically takes a weeks earnings to buy a loaf of bread or afford to catch a bus to work. Amazingly I get pleas from Zim. students to send them Picaxes...

Edited by - manuka on 04/08/2007 11:20:36

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

suspose we could be thankfull for the fact that we are able to get on here and not be sensored or restricted in anyway

 

[boriz]

&#8220;SUPER WEAPON THAT CAN CHANGE PEOPLE WILLS, AND BEND THEM TO OUR OWN WANTS&#8221;

Too late. It has already happened. The weapon is large and complex with many parts. But the &#8216;pointy end&#8217; is made of glass and it point&#8217;s at you every day. It may even be pointing at you now.

See: <A href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_bernaise' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>

And: <A href='http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>

 

[toxicmouse]

i suppose it depends what you expect. i think that my quality of life is good enough and i am quite happy with my situation, even though i am a greedy capitalist westener. i agree with stan, for your next holiday go to a third world hell hole- a very humbling experience. try to look at your buying power in terms of the number of loaves you can buy with one hours pay. mine is about ten (not the best loaves though), there is no way i can eat ten loaves of bread in a day, let alone in an hour. everything else is superficial, even accomodation.

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

i would like to visit a few of the countries but i don't have the money even for that

 

[Dippy]

We used to live in a hole in t' ground...

EI: I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing &quot;Hallelujah.&quot;

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

Thanks to Monty Python.

 

[manuka]

DPG- you can live &amp; eat like a king in China &amp; India for about a TENTH of what it'd cost just to laze around at home in Oz. During my time in the Indian Himalayan foothills last year (Dharamsala- WiFi conference) typical prices (in Aust$) experienced were - meals 50 cents, self contained luxury chalets $5 daily, cross town taxis $2-$3,local buses 30 cents, broadband web cafes 50c an hour etc etc. Local peasants wages were typically Aust$3 a day. Aust$50 would hence last a week, whereas back home you'd maybe spend that on breakfast alone-rent out your house &amp; go. It'll be life changing !

(I'd perfect health but was rather zonked by the 2000 metre altitude &amp; filthy air) Stan

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

the polution in malaysia was what gave me asthma, but getting my missus out of the country would reuire more than a miracle, lightridge is also a compromise it's still within a days drive to either side of the family and i'll still be able to work

 

[D n T]

In west oz we have a major tradesman shortage and the teachers, nurses and police. The rules of supply and demand say that a shortage icreases the cost. Obviously they didn't factor in the government having to pay it.
There are a massive number of teachers and they have had to settle for a pay rise that equates to not much more than the inflation rate. Teacher used to be paid the same rate as a back bencher but now they get over 200% more.
Maybe the local back bencher could come and do relief lessons for me some time.

I had a whole lot more but I deleted it because it was not polite ad the moderateor might not like me anymore.
Just imagine me writing down my thoughts about how the politicains who have no idea about their portfolio, stuff them up.
Good night, have fun be good and pay the bills.

 

[Rickharris]

I am fortunate in that I have never had to continue in a job I didn't like. As a teacher I like the job - you have to because it isn't a job you could do just because it pays well etc.

BUT Frustration, watching politicians vote themselves (and justify it) an above inflation pay rise whilst holding my pay down!! Mmm I am glad I will get out of employment in 2 years because I can see myself getting to not enjoy it no matter what I do.

Looking forward to making my own way again - With my pension even as an odd job man I will be as well off as I am now without all the frustration .

 

[boriz]

&#8220;i would like to visit a few of the countries but i don't have the money even for that&#8221;

As a voluntary worker for an aid organisation, I don&#8217;t think it would cost you anything. Don&#8217;t expect to have much fun though. You know those awful images of emaciated, fly-covered children on the news? Can you imagine how it would feel to actually be there? To befriend a child only to watch it die the next day for want of a loaf of bread or a bottle of water?

Their is actually enough wealth to go round. No one needs to live like that. Unfortunately those who care don&#8217;t have the wealth and those who have the wealth don&#8217;t care. (A bigger yacht. That&#8217;s what they care about.)

It&#8217;s obscene.

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

i rememeber a village in kl where they lived in similar circumstances , although the malaysian government to thier credit didn't ignore these people completely most of these villages are supplied off the water main with town water at no cost, and i vaguely remeber a chicken infestation, which the eggs and chicken meat was a main source of food , the land they were on was government land earmarked for future highway and industrial use and the condition that they could stay there was that when the land was needed they moved out,

 

[manuka]

A great point re voluntary work. I've been involved with assorted techie groups over recent years doing just this,&amp; aside from the -argh!-frustrations, can highly recommend it. However I'm trimming my topic submissions, as IMHO we're fast drifting well off the original &quot;Oz. Housing&quot; entry!

DPG - It's fair to mention however (in my experiences) that the standard of living overall in Malaysia is SUPERIOR now by perhaps orders of magnitude to that in much of &quot;$1 a day&quot; Africa. Water! Eggs!! Chickens !!! Those folks you saw in KL live like kings compared with similar in numerous lands - even (dare I say) parts of Oz's NT...

Edited by - manuka on 05/08/2007 01:12:07

 

[D n T]

At least here in the picaxe virtual world, those who need the knowledge know where to go and ask, those with the knowledge are there and don't mind answering, even if the same question comes around once a week.

AND we don't always talk only about PICAXE.

Thanks

 

[Rickharris]

If you want to talk to others on pretty much any subject (family acceptable) try this forum <A href='http://forums.howwhatwhy.com/ubbthreads.php' Target=_Blank>External Web Link</a>
The users are friendly, world wide and intelligent - well as good as it gets for any one these days. You will find me there.

 

[sedeap]

**********
Or you try my forum (related to microchips) but open to any topic in english or Spanish.
No censure there, free to talk of anything.
<External Web Link>
Obviously, insulting, bad racism or sex discrimination not allowed.

)

Edited by - sedeap on 06/08/2007 22:36:33

 

[craigcurtin]

&quot;hippy: I wish it were so simple.

Consider the person comfortably off who then falls on hard times, because rents or mortgages out-strip income, their job disappears, is relocated or goes overseas. If there are no decent jobs it's low paid ones and one's no better off. If jobs are in more expensive areas one cannot afford to move into them. If it means relocating to a cheaper area, there will be no way back as the house prices in the left area soars while the cheaper lags, the bridge is burnt on the way out.&quot;




Funny how people are ready and willing to embrace change in some areas - internet, TV, entertainment etc, but in others think that things should stand still ?

I think the old dream of get a trade, and settle into a job for 40 years is (obviously) long over. Now you need to be willing to re-skill yourself probably a couple of times throughout your working life. You are also going to need to flexible in how you work and the type of work you do. Yes there will always be roles for skilled trades etc, but they will Ebb and Wane and people are going to have to become more flexible.

Also the old way we were all taught about work hard at school, get a job, save hard, get a house etc are going to have to change. It is just setting you up to be on a treadmill.

You should really read Robert Kiyosaki's book 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' - it is a 180 degree alternative way of looking at life

Craig

 

[hippy]

<i>I think the old dream of get a trade, and settle into a job for 40 years is (obviously) long over. Now you need to be willing to re-skill yourself probably a couple of times throughout your working life. You are also going to need to flexible in how you work and the type of work you do. </i>

But getting re-skilled isn't that easy if companies are not prepared to take people on and do that, then there's the economic-social problem of a re-trained old 'un no better skilled than a college graduate but expecting four times the salary because they've got family, house, dog and whatnot commitments at their time in life.

Not everyone is fortunate to be able to fund their own training when a a career change is forced on them, nor support themselves and family while doing that retraining. For many it's right back to the bottom rung and start again, and their whole lives have often collapsed at that point. Everything they worked for up to that point goes.

That <i>Monopoly </i> feeling when one lands on the most expensive property with a full set of hotels ... imagine that in real life. It's not fun, and it's not easy.

 

[Dippy]

There will never be a solution to the concerns raised by hippy and craig.
When lower paid jobs are taken up by the uncontrolled immigration it makes it more difficult for unskilled/semiskilled 'natives'.
(Did any Brits watch BBC Panorama a couple of weeks ago?)

And when so many companies are 'outsourcing' overseas then jobs will be permanently lost*.

And when the rich/poor divide is so high that many people can afford second/third homes which has an inflationary effect on property prices.

Certain aspects of UK employment seem to be going full cycle to a 100 years ago where people would have to be very mobile in terms of employment, but a lot of Brits don't want that anymore. In those days the vast majority rented their accommodation, many because they had to be mobile - but most because they couldn't afford to buy.

A friend of mine who is a PC trainer is currently going to evening-school as he knows his job is going soon.
Another friend (Unix expert) is being made redundant from Barclays as they are outsourcing to Singapore (I think). And he knows he will have difficulty getting a new job in the same field.

So, both of you are right, and life is tough, but friend No.1 is doing something about it.

*Though I guess one advantage of 'British' companies having everything made in China is that it makes the UK carbon emissions look better.

PS. Is there something wrong with the server clock. Not important , just wondered.

Edited by - dippy on 07/08/2007 08:40:01

 

[Rickharris]

As I read through this thread I was considering my employment experience:

left school- good at practical things and interested in electricity and radio -joined the RAF - electronics engineer (should be skills to last a life time [Ha Ha])

Left the RAF (Wife didn't like it- military cutbacks) - Joined a similar civilian orgnisation.

Went out to Germany - tripled salary (and living costs) electronics.

Returned to UK (Wife having baby) - Mainframe computing - skill shortages so ICL trained me.

Moved into CAD/CAM mobile, company car (<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>) up and coming technology - systems engineer (hardware and software)

Moved back to Germany - Doubled wages - Same job.

Moved back to UK (Wife didn't like it - got divorced) - Worked as field service manager for Process control company. became involved in Quality Assurance (Flavor of the period)

Started own company advising big companies how to do the same thing (Don't start a business in a recession - if you do make sure your well financed because work is hard to get)

Decided to secure my future, job and pension wise and trained to become a teacher - 5 years later head of department and no wish to go any higher (due to retire from teaching in 2 years).

What then? Will work for self again, maybe household handyman (no one can do the simplest thing theses days and even the foreign trades people charge a fortune for basic jobs.

When you think about it things haven't changed much since the 60's. My Dad worked on the railways for 48 years, Both myself and my brother have had several jobs for one reason or another but the willingness to change and perhaps initially take a lower income (and learn to live within that income) is vital.

My Brother who trained as an industrial chemist is now a sailing instructor - worse pay but better fringe benefits.

Edited by - rickharris on 07/08/2007 10:02:43

 

[manuka]

Rick- this reads like a make believe OUAT (Once Upon A Time)bedtime story! So what's happened to &quot;the baby&quot; ?

 

[demonicpicaxeguy]

yep those old days are good and gone now i started off reading water meters for a living
for a rather dishonerable contractor

i left after being owed a large sum of money
to work at a seedling nursery as a labourer/forklift driver/a few other things
of course i have 12 different licenses

after that i started a few things on the side for extra cash and i went to work for a contractor in sydney after more cash and better conditions

now...i've managed to find myself sitting at the same desk as my current boss and the people trying to buy out my boss and who also happen to owe me money... the last meeting was interesting

but for all intensive purposes the old ways are now history,and we can all expect to have to re-skill several times during our lifetime

Edited by - demonicpicaxeguy on 07/08/2007 11:25:41