A PICAXE X2 wish list
- Thread starter vk6bgn
- Start date
Oh gosh Dippy, that is a bit of a technical question. And so, probably something for ”Technical” to figure out which chip best fits the purpose and most importantly, their business model. Wouldn’t want to R&D a PICAXE chip that no one wants except, “Hammy”. 
All I want the 3 PWM’s for is to power my new experimental high power geostationary, magnetically levitated, carbon fibre electro magnets with my newly built back yard Helium cooled Ale particle accelerator. Hopefully I can cool and accelerate these near absolute zero degree Ale proton particles slightly below the speed of light and in 120 degree out of phase directions. If my wife’s little lap dog doesn’t chew up any of the 3 Ale proton hoses again that encircle my backyard, I should be able to slowly bring all phasing to absolute zero electrical degrees to focus and then collide these high speed Ale proton particles together at a point of impact and possible produce a new sub atomic particle. It will then be Neutrons, Electrons, Protons and now Bourb-on’s, the newly found particle. If my calculations are wrong, then only some other form of high proof liquid molecule may only be found. If I can capture enough of these newly formed Bourb-on particles at the focal point, two things will happen. Firstly, I will soon become very rich as the use of a distiller over the centuries will now become obsolete. Secondly and over the long term, I will have to sell my newly formed R&D company and patented process because as the summer arrives here in the Northern West of Australia, it will soon become unbearably hot and humid and I will eventually drink all the newly found Bourbon particles and company profits!
Just think Dippy, if this whole DIY backyard particle accelerator works, I’ll be the talk of my little outback town! Just imagine the back yard parties I could have! An unlimited supply of Bourb-on’s! Or maybe, the whole thing may just crash and burn before it really gets started.
I’ll keep you posted in a few months after the latest failures and repairs.
“Hammy”
All I want the 3 PWM’s for is to power my new experimental high power geostationary, magnetically levitated, carbon fibre electro magnets with my newly built back yard Helium cooled Ale particle accelerator. Hopefully I can cool and accelerate these near absolute zero degree Ale proton particles slightly below the speed of light and in 120 degree out of phase directions. If my wife’s little lap dog doesn’t chew up any of the 3 Ale proton hoses again that encircle my backyard, I should be able to slowly bring all phasing to absolute zero electrical degrees to focus and then collide these high speed Ale proton particles together at a point of impact and possible produce a new sub atomic particle. It will then be Neutrons, Electrons, Protons and now Bourb-on’s, the newly found particle. If my calculations are wrong, then only some other form of high proof liquid molecule may only be found. If I can capture enough of these newly formed Bourb-on particles at the focal point, two things will happen. Firstly, I will soon become very rich as the use of a distiller over the centuries will now become obsolete. Secondly and over the long term, I will have to sell my newly formed R&D company and patented process because as the summer arrives here in the Northern West of Australia, it will soon become unbearably hot and humid and I will eventually drink all the newly found Bourbon particles and company profits!
Just think Dippy, if this whole DIY backyard particle accelerator works, I’ll be the talk of my little outback town! Just imagine the back yard parties I could have! An unlimited supply of Bourb-on’s! Or maybe, the whole thing may just crash and burn before it really gets started.
I’ll keep you posted in a few months after the latest failures and repairs.
“Hammy”
westaust55
Moderator
Then if you believe all claims about the new accelerator they have built in France, a certain little outback town in good ol' WA might just become a small black hole. I could end up living on the edge of a black holeOh gosh Dippy, that is a bit of a technical question. And so, probably something for ”Technical” to figure out which chip best fits the purpose and most importantly, their business model. Wouldn’t want to R&D a PICAXE chip that no one wants except, “Hammy”.
... here in the Northern West of Australia, it will soon become unbearably hot and humid and I will eventually drink all the newly found Bourbon particles and company profits!
Just think Dippy, if this whole DIY backyard particle accelerator works, I’ll be the talk of my little outback town! Just imagine the back yard parties I could have! An unlimited supply of Bourb-on’s! Or maybe, the whole thing may just crash and burn before it really gets started.
“Hammy”
Michael 2727
Senior Member
WestOZ you wouldn't be on the edge for too long, I'm sure you would be drawn into
the limelight/blacklight fairly quickly, you could set up the first Sub Space Pub.
Speaking of chewing things up, what's the air speed velocity of a Maltese Terrier ? I spose
that would depend if it were laden or unladen with those Bourb-on’s.
Maybe you could fit it Ale-erons for stability.
HRA the 20M Experimenter is 95% done.
the limelight/blacklight fairly quickly, you could set up the first Sub Space Pub.
Speaking of chewing things up, what's the air speed velocity of a Maltese Terrier ? I spose
that would depend if it were laden or unladen with those Bourb-on’s.
Maybe you could fit it Ale-erons for stability.
HRA the 20M Experimenter is 95% done.
........that’s right! You won't be on the edge for too long, we'll all become long strands of Spaghetti as we enter the singularity! Even the “normally immune to everything, I can do no wrong” lap dog is not immune to this rare event!
Michael 2727, send nice clear photo when the 20M project is 100 percent complete.
........In the meantime, best solution is probably additional PICAXE's as slave devices.
(thanks for the advice Hippy)
Cheers
“Hammy”
westaust55
Moderator
Just for the new "PICHAM X2"
And even up to 6 PWM channels in an 18 pin device
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39758c.pdf
Mind you lose out on other features
inglewoodpete
Senior Member
Back to the subject: the wish list (my thoughts)....
1. A pin monitoring command, the idea being to get the fastest possible response to an anticipated state change on a pin:
WaitPin pin, {state}, {timeout period}, {timeout address}
2. A command that outputs a number of pulses to a pin really quickly. Useful for counter/displays like the CD4026, to minimise LED flicker.
PulsePin pin, {pulse count}, [optional pulse period]
1. A pin monitoring command, the idea being to get the fastest possible response to an anticipated state change on a pin:
WaitPin pin, {state}, {timeout period}, {timeout address}
2. A command that outputs a number of pulses to a pin really quickly. Useful for counter/displays like the CD4026, to minimise LED flicker.
PulsePin pin, {pulse count}, [optional pulse period]
matthew945
Member
1. maybe a 16 or 32 bit architecture pic.
2. combine words into dwords and bigger. i.e symbol word = w1 + w2 + w3 + w4
3. parallel lcd commands
2. combine words into dwords and bigger. i.e symbol word = w1 + w2 + w3 + w4
3. parallel lcd commands
Last edited:
X2, let's see....
1. faster
2. separate pwms (I second that)
3. built in voltage regulator
4. An 8-bit DAC or two
5. built in 22/10 R / bat85 (lazy I know, but this is a wishlist) and finally........
..... how about getting it out there for folks to buy within, say, a year or so of it being officially announced as next cab off the rank? ;-)
1. faster
2. separate pwms (I second that)
3. built in voltage regulator
4. An 8-bit DAC or two
5. built in 22/10 R / bat85 (lazy I know, but this is a wishlist) and finally........
..... how about getting it out there for folks to buy within, say, a year or so of it being officially announced as next cab off the rank? ;-)
westaust55
Moderator
Future PICAXE Wish List
While this thread started as an X2 wishlist, Rev Ed have already declared the intended PIC to be used for the 28/40 X2 parts.
While the idea of the wish list is great, it should be giving Rev Ed some guidance as to what teh consumers want, it is in all reality likely to be taken on board for the next generation as X3 (?) parts.
While this thread started as an X2 wishlist, Rev Ed have already declared the intended PIC to be used for the 28/40 X2 parts.
While the idea of the wish list is great, it should be giving Rev Ed some guidance as to what teh consumers want, it is in all reality likely to be taken on board for the next generation as X3 (?) parts.
retepsnikrep
Senior Member
Yeap -just what I was gonna say. Lets not add delay to the X2 parts by giving them new idea's
Texy
hippy
Ex-Staff (retired)
It's also getting dangerously close to fantasy land territory because, regardless of what people want, Rev-Ed are stuck with what Microchip have on offer unless they move to a different processor and (1) I don't really see that happening, (2) similar problems remain of what can be given being dictated by the micro's manufacturer. As noted, while some things may be achievable, not all will be and it may mean the loss of other things a PICAXE is expected to have so could be ruled out on those grounds.
What a "wish list" is about falls between achievable enhancements and ideal processor design; Rev-Ed may take on-board some of the former but have little control over the latter, which is where most hardware enhancements will fall.
While everything 'software' is possible the chip has to be capable of supporting the larger firmware and Rev-Ed have to find a business case for altering the compilers and the firmware.
Regardless of that, I don't see anything wrong with such wish lists. I'd like to see -
* On-chip USB with PICAXE Basic commands for USB Serial interfacing
* PICAXE Basic support for EN28J60 ethernet interfacing
* The ability to run multiple concurrent programs in the same PICAXE
* The ability to load and run code from external I2C Eeprom
The command I see a need and requests for which isn't currently supported is "measure the time from now until a pin goes high/low".
What a "wish list" is about falls between achievable enhancements and ideal processor design; Rev-Ed may take on-board some of the former but have little control over the latter, which is where most hardware enhancements will fall.
While everything 'software' is possible the chip has to be capable of supporting the larger firmware and Rev-Ed have to find a business case for altering the compilers and the firmware.
Regardless of that, I don't see anything wrong with such wish lists. I'd like to see -
* On-chip USB with PICAXE Basic commands for USB Serial interfacing
* PICAXE Basic support for EN28J60 ethernet interfacing
* The ability to run multiple concurrent programs in the same PICAXE
* The ability to load and run code from external I2C Eeprom
The command I see a need and requests for which isn't currently supported is "measure the time from now until a pin goes high/low".
Some great ideas there hippy.
I'd like more code space. I've got a custom Z80 board sitting in front of me with 1976 technology, and it has 64k of ram space, 1 meg of eprom, programmed in a form of basic that includes strings and floating point arrays, and RS232 (with no serin hang). But I appreciate that the PIC chips limit code space.
"The ability to load and run code from external I2C eprom". Agree 100%. This is the CPM concept which is a very basic form of DOS. You can have a program, sitting in storage somewhere, eg on an eeprom 'disk', and you can run it. You can then have a line in that program that 'loads' the next program and runs it. And so on. This is so incredibly convenient, as the code space becomes limitless.
USB and ethernet - fantastic. And it shouldn't be expensive either.
Is picaxe truly hardware dependent? I wonder about taking the incredible hardware power of the Propellor chip, and combining it with the amazing simplicity of picaxe code. That would be an awesome combination. Propellor can drive VGA monitors directly - imagine driving a VGA monitor with a single picaxe command...
I'd like more code space. I've got a custom Z80 board sitting in front of me with 1976 technology, and it has 64k of ram space, 1 meg of eprom, programmed in a form of basic that includes strings and floating point arrays, and RS232 (with no serin hang). But I appreciate that the PIC chips limit code space.
"The ability to load and run code from external I2C eprom". Agree 100%. This is the CPM concept which is a very basic form of DOS. You can have a program, sitting in storage somewhere, eg on an eeprom 'disk', and you can run it. You can then have a line in that program that 'loads' the next program and runs it. And so on. This is so incredibly convenient, as the code space becomes limitless.
USB and ethernet - fantastic. And it shouldn't be expensive either.
Is picaxe truly hardware dependent? I wonder about taking the incredible hardware power of the Propellor chip, and combining it with the amazing simplicity of picaxe code. That would be an awesome combination. Propellor can drive VGA monitors directly - imagine driving a VGA monitor with a single picaxe command...
(Re: First 3 paras of hippy's post) - Exactly. Wise words... which I think have been said before(?).
My wishlist:-
Before people start their monster wish lists I wish they had a read of PIC data to see if, in some cases, the hardware could stand it.
I haven't looked closely, but wrt to the 3 individual PWMs, yes some PICs can vary different duty cycles on different output pins but probably have the same clock source - if that is the case, some people will say 'fine' and others will say "Boo hoo, but I want different frequencies too". Can't win.
I would like to know how space would be left if ALL the things on the wish list were incorporated.
I agree that we're getting close to fanatsy land and we're getting close to going beyond the remit of PICAXE I would have thought.
And, by 'eck, can you just imagine the torrents of "I can't do..." if there were options for USB and Ethernet.
And, of course, you'll all want it all for under a fiver.... - And a free Editor and free updates and free detailed help on the Forum. And obviously you'd expect detailed help instantly with Ethernet related enquiries.
Is it really worth it for Rev-Ed to go to all that effort for the half-a-dozen people who wish to do it?
If you (and I'm not pointing at hippy) want to do some complicated things with USB, Ethernet, DIY PWMs with hardware interrupts and fast response times then save up, take a deep breath, and buy a good compiler and programmer. And good luck.
But I do like the idea of running programmes from an EEPROM and being able to summon code pages like a subroutine and running them. Reminds me a bit of ...
My wish, by the way, would be arrays.
My wishlist:-
Before people start their monster wish lists I wish they had a read of PIC data to see if, in some cases, the hardware could stand it.
I haven't looked closely, but wrt to the 3 individual PWMs, yes some PICs can vary different duty cycles on different output pins but probably have the same clock source - if that is the case, some people will say 'fine' and others will say "Boo hoo, but I want different frequencies too". Can't win.
I would like to know how space would be left if ALL the things on the wish list were incorporated.
I agree that we're getting close to fanatsy land and we're getting close to going beyond the remit of PICAXE I would have thought.
And, by 'eck, can you just imagine the torrents of "I can't do..." if there were options for USB and Ethernet.
And, of course, you'll all want it all for under a fiver....
- And a free Editor and free updates and free detailed help on the Forum. And obviously you'd expect detailed help instantly with Ethernet related enquiries.Is it really worth it for Rev-Ed to go to all that effort for the half-a-dozen people who wish to do it?
If you (and I'm not pointing at hippy) want to do some complicated things with USB, Ethernet, DIY PWMs with hardware interrupts and fast response times then save up, take a deep breath, and buy a good compiler and programmer. And good luck.
But I do like the idea of running programmes from an EEPROM and being able to summon code pages like a subroutine and running them. Reminds me a bit of ...
My wish, by the way, would be arrays.
"The ability to load and run code from external I2C eprom". - I also agree this would be a nice feature, and should not be limited to the X2 parts. "They who shall not be named" have that in the pipeline, and they also have something else that would be very nice - real time debugging. Afterall, if the ICD2 can do it, why not picaxe? As far as moving forward with the compiler and software options, I would like to see the code used as modular, so that the lower end chips could use some of the software features of their larger cousins, where hardware allows of course. Having only 256 bytes of program space is somewhat limiting - how much of that space could be freed up if certain commands are not used?
Texy
Texy
hippy
Ex-Staff (retired)
Not entirely but its success I would venture is largely due to the hardware it does use.
The real dependency comes in having to take existing firmware and re-write that for a different architecture.
"Awesome combination" is right. PICAXE code driving a TV is amazing and communicating with a PC via USB serial makes it doubly so. VGA should be possible but does use a lot of memory.
The downside is that it's a more expensive chip, requires crystal and Eeprom to work, has a 1.5 second boot-up delay, has very tight voltage requirements (3V3), cannot have 5V driven into it withot current limiting R's, and is more likely prone to damage from 'abuse' an average user would throw at a PICAXE. And there's no on-chip ADC - I ended up using a PICAXE to provide that !
I think the real success of PICAXE has been delivering what is possible elsewhere but in a "very easy to use by novices" format. Rev-Ed put in the hard work, save everyone from repeating that exercise and in return people hand their piggy banks over
Sounds like a good model to me.
None. It's 128/256 bytes because that's the only program space which is downloadable in the lower spec PICAXE's. The rest of the memory cannot be used regardless of what firmware commands are present or not.
Last edited:
"I think the real success of PICAXE has been delivering what is possible elsewhere but in a "very easy to use by novices" format. Rev-Ed put in the hard work, save everyone from repeating that exercise and in return people hand their piggy banks over "
- precisely, That's why I said "I agree that we're getting close to fanatsy land and we're getting close to going beyond the remit of PICAXE I would have thought."
Anyway, I'll leave the wish-list to extend ad nauseum..
"- precisely, That's why I said "I agree that we're getting close to fanatsy land and we're getting close to going beyond the remit of PICAXE I would have thought."
Anyway, I'll leave the wish-list to extend ad nauseum..
Given that I will probably be celebrating my daughter going to school when the X2s arrive (she's currently 1.5 yrs old), I think *everything* on the wish list is fantasy!
At first I entertained the idea that the for b0 = 0 to x : pause 3 months : next delay in getting these chips out was due to more wish list requests being added, LOL. And given that, as has been stated, RevEd are to a considerable degree bound by the Microchip ICs themselves, that's not the delay...
OK, let's do away with the wish list apart from one thing.
As my daugther says: "We want the chips!"
At first I entertained the idea that the for b0 = 0 to x : pause 3 months : next delay in getting these chips out was due to more wish list requests being added, LOL. And given that, as has been stated, RevEd are to a considerable degree bound by the Microchip ICs themselves, that's not the delay...
OK, let's do away with the wish list apart from one thing.
As my daugther says: "We want the chips!"
Hippy, you hit the nail on the head…… "very easy to use by novices" That’s ME!
Not all that long ago I purchased a Serial PIC programmer from a reputable electronics company here in Australia. After a month or more of trying to figure out what Assembler was (yuk yuk), I could not even get it to write to the LCD, beep the buzzer or even flash an LED. How disappointing!
Not long after this, I found and later purchased a chip called a PICAXE-08M from the eastern states of Oz. With in about two days of arriving, I had successfully downloaded my first program, the first try! I flashed an LED!
With in about 2 years I’ve built a few different random Morse code generators with the some help (thanks Stan), Iambic Morse code keyers, Morse Code Beacon transmitters, a scratch built electric scooter with Hall Effect throttle and PWM output. Latest is an 18X repeater controller board to control two 25 Watt VHF radios as a repeater. Not a bad leap from flashin’ and LED in just under 2 years.
For me personally, this would have been unachievable if I stuck with the original Serial PIC Programmer (I might now just be getting an LED to flash!)
The PICAXE truly does cater to the Novice! (ME)
By the way, the PIC programmer has been dismantled a long time ago and most of the parts have been used in my PICAXE projects!
Oh, and you’re all correct, should have been a X3 wish list.
“Hammy”
hippy
Ex-Staff (retired)
I don't know how much of a "promise" Rev-Ed made on anything with respect to the X2 without trawling through a lot of old posts but the inclusion of the X2 commands in the User Manuals and support in the Programming Editor suggests its arrival will be sometime soon.
There's no denying that the X2's are later than everyone would have liked and has been on the cards for probably two years now and I'm sure Rev-Ed would have preferred to put it in the market sooner rather than later.
In that time it hasn't been a case of Rev-Ed simply doing nothing without a care for their customers; we've now got Linux and Mac compilers, PICAXE-20M and whatever else we've conveniently forgotten about. Even things like a simple USB breadboard interface takes time to develop, design and bring to production and like most companies Rev-Ed has limited resources plus there's far more to running a business than working on the next PICAXE variant.
While the X2 will be a welcome addition I don't see that it's an absolutely necessary addition or its lack of existence ruining anyone's life or business. I hope the X2 is a success and I'm sure those crying out for it will be placing huge orders when it arrives. Or maybe not; it's human nature to exaggerate a lack of something to well beyond real need. It's the job of a business to prioritise for continued success and meet the demands of its markets and that sometimes means things which are desirable and planned aren't always at the top of the list.
There's no denying that the X2's are later than everyone would have liked and has been on the cards for probably two years now and I'm sure Rev-Ed would have preferred to put it in the market sooner rather than later.
In that time it hasn't been a case of Rev-Ed simply doing nothing without a care for their customers; we've now got Linux and Mac compilers, PICAXE-20M and whatever else we've conveniently forgotten about. Even things like a simple USB breadboard interface takes time to develop, design and bring to production and like most companies Rev-Ed has limited resources plus there's far more to running a business than working on the next PICAXE variant.
While the X2 will be a welcome addition I don't see that it's an absolutely necessary addition or its lack of existence ruining anyone's life or business. I hope the X2 is a success and I'm sure those crying out for it will be placing huge orders when it arrives. Or maybe not; it's human nature to exaggerate a lack of something to well beyond real need. It's the job of a business to prioritise for continued success and meet the demands of its markets and that sometimes means things which are desirable and planned aren't always at the top of the list.
I'll second that, hippy.
I've only been sniffing around for a short time, but it certainly looks like the rev-ed commitment to the PICAXE is serious enough to look on the bright side what with all the software, etc.
Of course I want the X2 now too! I've noticed what looks like a global shortage of X1s, 28X1s in particular. Maybe this is due to production and release of X2s?
I've only been sniffing around for a short time, but it certainly looks like the rev-ed commitment to the PICAXE is serious enough to look on the bright side what with all the software, etc.
Of course I want the X2 now too! I've noticed what looks like a global shortage of X1s, 28X1s in particular. Maybe this is due to production and release of X2s?
I take your point, but refer rule number 1: the customer is always right. Especially when they're promised something and do have $ to hand over, regardless of whether they buy 1 chip or 1000. Working in the software industry, I know how easy it is for vendors to promise, delay, delay again, change tack, then complain how unappreciative their customers are when a half-pie solution is delivered over budget and a year late.
Rule number 1: the paying customer is always right! (even when they're wrong)
Rule number 1: the paying customer is always right! (even when they're wrong)
I'm pretty happy with my Picaxe as is. If I could ask for more, I would like to have a voice recognition programmer. I want it to listen to what I tell it to do and just do it. I guess it needs to know the English and Texan languages.
Light up that there LED and go see how full my water tank is...here...use this radio to do it
Light up that there LED and go see how full my water tank is...here...use this radio to do it
BeanieBots
Moderator
Been there, done that. NOT EASY and NOT CHEAP.
There are two basic versions of speach recognition. "Speaker dependant", where YOU teach it YOUR voice and "Speaker independant" where anyone (without a very strong accent) can give the command. For the latter, you must get the recognition chip programmed by the supplier with the words you want it to recognise. (again, not cheap).
For a cheap (~£300) introduction try this:-
http://www.totalrobots.com/speech-sound-speech-rec-c-24_25.html
There are two basic versions of speach recognition. "Speaker dependant", where YOU teach it YOUR voice and "Speaker independant" where anyone (without a very strong accent) can give the command. For the latter, you must get the recognition chip programmed by the supplier with the words you want it to recognise. (again, not cheap).
For a cheap (~£300) introduction try this:-
http://www.totalrobots.com/speech-sound-speech-rec-c-24_25.html
BeanieBots
Moderator
Image recognition maybe.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cmucam/home.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cmucam/home.html
Large Hammy Accelerator
I suppose we might get the wish list in the X 99 chip series, but USB might be interesting.
Perhaps the manuals could have some more examples.
Do you do a T shirt.
The PICAXE 40 HAM should have a beverage holder to contain the excess burbons that could disrupt the program ( at least in the writting stage)
Hey Hammy, You might need to watch young Einstein, it is a cautionary tale of a young lad who in early Australia achieved his goals in a research field similair to yours, he split the beer atom, but blow up his shed.
If you have a problem and have a leak of bourbonising particles, what safety measures do you have in place?
Do you have a silica containment unit with hard water and carbonated cola dilution agent on site to handle such a situation. It might help.
I suppose we might get the wish list in the X 99 chip series, but USB might be interesting.
Perhaps the manuals could have some more examples.
Do you do a T shirt.
The PICAXE 40 HAM should have a beverage holder to contain the excess burbons that could disrupt the program ( at least in the writting stage)
Hey Hammy, You might need to watch young Einstein, it is a cautionary tale of a young lad who in early Australia achieved his goals in a research field similair to yours, he split the beer atom, but blow up his shed.
If you have a problem and have a leak of bourbonising particles, what safety measures do you have in place?
Do you have a silica containment unit with hard water and carbonated cola dilution agent on site to handle such a situation. It might help.