A recommended Picaxe Shopping List

[mdunk]

Hello again,

Thank you to all those that responded to my previous question regarding linear vs log potentiometers. I have finished my tracking motor and mechanical setup for my solar panels, I have simulated things to within an inch of their lives using the programming software, now I need to buy some stuff.

I am expecting to make a few picaxe 18X based devices over the next year or so. So far the list includes a tracking controller for the solar array and a small sailing-boat autopilot. In both cases the 18X chip seems to be capable on paper, and in both cases I need the I2C capability, to talk to external devices. (LED display AXE033, Clock chip DS1307 & a compass chip)

In both cases I will need to control 12V DC motors that draw an amp or so of current, so I am assuming I will be either using something like the L298N Motor Driver IC or relays to control the motors.

So given this is the sort of thing I will be building, and that I am pretty good at soldering neatly and doing things in a careful and systematic fashion, can anyone recommend a suitable Picaxe kit(s) to suit my needs? There seem to be a few things like starter packs, and tutorial packs, which is most suitable?

I guess a breadboard would be good for testing but I would expect to move pretty quickly to a fully soldered finished product in each case, so the breadboard may not be much use. (But then again, I might be sadly dissapointed!)

Thank you,

Matthew

 

[hippy]

The next step up from bread-board is strip-board / vero-board. If you want to get advanced you could move to PCB's. If you're into building your own hardware I'd say either approach would be better than trying to find a starter kit or project board which matches what you'll specifically need.

 

[moxhamj]

The kits are a good start. I have some 18X boards I have that can do relays and a display and analog intpus and outputs. But they can't do I2C because I didn't need that, and I think that is the problem you may find with any generic board - it will do most of what you want but not everything.

I get boards made professionally, but that is only after lots of testing on, you guessed it, a breadboard. I'd suggest getting a breadboard, or even 2 or 3 and put them on a piece of wood and start testing all the components. You might find, for instance, that a mosfet works better than a L298. You might find the serial display only is available in 16x2 and you need to display more info and thus need a 20x4 display and they only come as parallel. If there are any unanswered questions, the breadboard will prove what works.

Are you at the schematic stage yet? If so, you could put it up on the forum for comment.

 

[mdunk]

I don't have schematic yet, partly because I do not have any software capable of producing one. Is there a product that people regularly use on the forums? I see plenty of nice clean pictures posted from time to time, but I have no idea what was used to produce them.

 

[westaust55]

Stripboards / veroboards & proto-boards

As hippy says,

Stripboards, veroboards & proto-boards are a logical step for something permanent or semi-permanent.


I have been using protoboards as there is lees time needed cutting tracks since they are already provided with segments of copper track.

Have a look at these threads. In the first there are photos of the proto-board that I used for most of my modules. I use sockets for the IC's.

http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9884

http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9618

 

[Dippy]

"I see plenty of nice clean pictures posted from time to time, but I have no idea what was used to produce them."

- do a search on CAD*.
It will show loads of threads where people refer to CAD. That is how you get pretty pictures.. with some effort by you too of course.

Eagle seems most popular because it is free. Personally it is not my preferred choice but then it's not the 'Devil I know'.

There will now follow the regular listing of 'My Favourite CAD'...

 

[westaust55]

"I see plenty of nice clean pictures posted from time to time, but I have no idea what was used to produce them."

- do a search on CAD*.
It will show loads of threads where people refer to CAD. That is how you get pretty pictures.. with some effort by you too of course.

The sticky post by Admin permanently at the top of this forum states:

Please check the FAQ and do a search before starting a new thread

It is a pity that many do not use the Search function located in the top orange bar at the top of each page on this forum. There is also an Advanced search capability which can speed up searching for something more specific such as when one knows the author from past trolling thru these threads.

Maybe Admin could add a few words on using the search function effectively.

Another thought . . make the sticky post a mandatory read as part of becoming a member. A bit bit like the User License Agreements associated with a lot of software.


Notwithstanding the fact that it is evident many do not do a search for themselves, I and many others here will continue to assist all to the best of our ability

 

[moxhamj]

Well my second favourite program for drawing up schematics is Eagle.

And my favourite? Well, that is a pencil and paper.

There is nothing wrong with a quick sketch. You can scan it. You can draw it in thick pen and then photograph it. In fact, you don't necessarily have to post it on the forum - just have one drawn up and describe it.

Breadboard first and prove a concept works.

Then protoboard - or stripboard. My personal favourite there is to use boards with little circular pads on each hole and to use point to point wiring using different coloured wire wrap wire. But the wires are soldered, not wire wrapped. You do need a wire wrap stripping tool though - stripping with pliers invariably weakens the wire.

I'll absolutely 100% second westaust55's comment about sockets.

If you are soldering this up yourself, you won't really need a picaxe kit. Get a really big board so you can space things out and then add extra things later.

If you then can get a board working on prototype board and it is a rock solid design and proved in the field, email me the scanned copy of the hand drawn schematic and I'll turn it into an eagle board for you. I just did this recently for a guy in the US and it doesn't take long. One picaxer to another and all that.

 

[ciseco]

I second Dr A on eagle, his instructable got me into it, the newer version has more friendlier windows feel, took me ages to figure out cut and paste in the old one

I'd never used anything to do PCB's before, started out using corel draw, hehehe. If you have the patience to give it a week of swearing and digging help files, it gets much much easier I promise

Miles
________
hotels in mexico

 

[hippy]

I don't have schematic yet, partly because I do not have any software capable of producing one. Is there a product that people regularly use on the forums? I see plenty of nice clean pictures posted from time to time, but I have no idea what was used to produce them.

You can always go for ASCII art

Suits me, is easy to create with practice and usually platform agnostic. Not brilliant for large diagrams. Limited page width forces large circuits to be split into sections which has its own advantages.

Using the schematic tools of a CAD system is however best if you're looking at creating PCB's or want a 'more professional' looking diagrams.

       _
       |______-----______
       |                 \
       | ASCII Art Roolz  |
       |______-----______/
       |
     .-^-.
    _|  _|  _   _
   | |_| |_| |_| |
   |             |
   |  +   +   +  |
   |     ___     |
   |  + |###| +  |    O
___|____|###|____|___\|/__

 

[Mycroft2152]

There are a lot of excellent schematic / pcb CAD programs on the market. Your choice depends on your budget, the amount of time you plan on spending learning the commands, the type of output you want and the overall ease of use and "look" of the program.

I had heard a lot of good things about EAGLE, and after 3 years of woriking with EAGLE I was finally able to get EAGLE to do the things that I wanted in reasonably quick amount of time. I must admit that I am not a novice user or nor are my projects very simple.

Because of my frustration woth the reverse logic in the EAGLE interface, I kept trying other software. I finally came across DIPTRACE, downloaded the demo and converted from EAGLE in less than a week. It was that easy to use. Very windows like commands and a very intuitive interface.

But the main seling point for me wa the ease of creating components and footprints. I was tired of the generic square boxes with letter and numbers for component symbols. These boxes are very hard to understand and how they relate to the real world.

To that end I created a bunch of new components in the 'live-bug" style along with some pcb footprints that were easier to use in homebrewed pcb boards. The pads are oversized to be more forgiving when hand drilling.

Attached is a jpeg of some of the component schematic symbols as well as then entire library of components used in the Rev-Ed manuals and then some. I have been using this library for over three years now with great success.

If you are looking for a schematic CAD program, think abut the understandability of your schemtic and the ease of creating it.

There is a free download at www.diptrace.com This free version allows any size pcb to be made that contain a maximum of 250 pins and 2 layers. There is also an exact size printout function that is great of toner transfer or photo homebrew pcbs.

Myc

Note: To use the DIPTRACE library change the extension to eli from dsn. (the standard trick to post non-conforming formats on the forum)

 

[mdunk]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try Diptrace and Eagle and see how they go, my needs are VERY simple. Most of my schematics have been in my head or pencil and paper.

WestAUS55, take heart. I searched the forum for half an hour before I posted the question about schematics. As is often the case, knowing WHAT to search for is the trick. I didn't search on CAD because to my limited experience, CAD is used for engineering drawings, I had not thought of it in terms of electronics. In fact, I hadn't even considered producing a schematic for people's consideration until Dr_Acula made the sensible suggestion. I searched on schematic, which of course produced LOTS of hits, mainly of the type "here is the schematic I propose". On the upside, it did mean that I read lots of interesting posts when I SHOULD have been working, but that is beside the point.

I think I detect a hint of frustration among the regulars about people using the forum to do their homework for them. Understandable, I have been a maths tutor for many years and I see it all the time, at least I am paid for it. But I can reassure anyone who cares, by the time I post a question it is because I have tried my research and I have hit a wall, that's when I turn to the experts for help.

Of course if I was the school homework sort I would have tried my luck in getting someone to produce the schematic for me, I have seen a few of those sorts of posts too. "So... can you send me a picture of how you think it should look?" Or I would have got Daddy to pay a tutor to do it for me. (Don't get me started on my anti-private school maths dropouts!)

Anyway, BIG proto-boards seem favoured (Off to Jaycar again! Rubs hands gleefully and promises himself he will only get just ONE or TWO thing this time), and the sockets sound good too. I was worried about the sockets, I thought maybe they could complicate things by introducing a potential point of poor connection, but I was also VERY worried about soldering the chips and wrecking them by overheating them. Nobody recommended the starter kits... I was suprised, but then I can see that if you are comfortable with the technology already, the kits are a probably a bit redundant and limiting, not to mention a tad expensive.

Thanks again to all for the very helpful suggestions.

 

[moxhamj]

"(Don't get me started on my anti-private school maths dropouts!)"

LOL. My wife used to do private school maths tutoring. Anyway, isn't the answer to simply move the students into the vege-maths class? Then they can all get A's. Some private schools force students to do this so they can proudly say in the school magazine "99% of all students who did maths I and II got straight As".

Say hi to Jaycar for me.

Sockets are fine. I have some old boards that have got a bit oxidised over the last 10 years - but remove the chips and the metal is still shiny where it contacted the socket. They are very reliable. In fact, I'd suggest using the cheaper "dual wipe" ones rather than the machined ones - the dual wipe ones seem more tolerant of multiple insertions, and they are also more tolerant of slightly bent pins. Debugging is a breeze with sockets if you suspect zapped chips. Plus, as you say, you don't get overcooked chips. And recycling chips from old boards is much easier too.

 

[hippy]

Definitely use sockets, they have so many advantages. Buy what are called "turned-pin" if you can find them and afford them, they're worth the extra expense.

 

[westaust55]

I do not use a CAD package.

Where I need to create a simple schematic to explain for an answer I often just draw in Paint or Excel and print to a pdf file (pdf's and jpg files can be uploaded but not bmp or xls files)

 

[oldjoe]

My favorit CAD program

Hi Mdunk

My favorite CAD program is a free one from expresspcb, it does both schematics and PCB Layout. Has a fair library and easy to add ones own symbols to library.

Express PCB makes their money back by providing their layout program with a "one button" to automatically order the PCB from Express PCB

The Layout has automatic error checking against the schematic.

The Schematic has some error checking.

The cost of buying boards from ExpressPCB is 3 for $54 and to me with shipping it is three for $59. About as cheap as you can get them anywhere. My preference is to wire-wrap anything that I am only going to make one of .... do PCB for anything I am going to make two or more.


I wish the Forum would let me post .sch and .pcb extensions. If they did, I would post and example.

oldjoe

BTW the URL for Express PCB is http://www.expresspcb.com

 

[eclectic]

oldjoe.

"I wish the Forum would let me post .sch and .pcb extensions. If they did, I would post and example."

You can; sort of.

Use snipping tool in Vista,
or, Alt + PrtScr. (With a little cropping).

e.

 

[oldjoe]

Reply to eclectic's suggestion on posting

Hi eclectic

OK, I did the alt - print screen thing and went to Paint and cropped the screen. It came out as a .bmp file, I will have to check to see if the forum will allow .bmp

Nope I will have to go back to paint and see if I have another choice.

Now trying a .jpg, OK it looked like this worked. Thanks electric

Mdunk, I haven't seen the results yet, but if it looks good, then you can get this CAD program for free. BTW, if you want to see a Layout example just ask.

OK, now I have seen results. Nt so good. Kinda grainy, my fault, I did not do a good enough job cropping, missed a few pixels, so the schamatic is smaller than it should be. BTW, when it is working right, all the circles come out smooth, and one can zoom and pan the schematic.


oldjoe

 

[westaust55]

Hi eclectic

OK, I did the alt - print screen thing and went to Paint and cropped the screen. It came out as a .bmp file, I will have to check to see if the forum will allow .bmp

Nope I will have to go back to paint and see if I have another choice.

Now trying a .jpg, OK it looked like this worked. Thanks electric


oldjoe

Just as I had stated back at post 15

and at thread:
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=76789#post76789

I had stated:

you will need to select and save in .jpg format from Paint.
The .bmp which Paint offers in the first instance cannot be uploaded on this forum.

 

[nbw]

@ Oldjoe:
THis ExpressPCB - can you design your own PCBs and then print them out, rather than sending them off for $$ and manufacture? I have some press-n-peel pcb film and some copper board I'd like to give a go, and am looking for a free software package to design my (fairly simple) PCBs, then print them out onto my film.

 

[Mycroft2152]

@ Oldjoe:
THis ExpressPCB - can you design your own PCBs and then print them out, rather than sending them off for $$ and manufacture? I have some press-n-peel pcb film and some copper board I'd like to give a go, and am looking for a free software package to design my (fairly simple) PCBs, then print them out onto my film.

See response #11.

DIPTRACE has a built-in pcb print function (View) that will print out individulal layers. This is also great to print component markings from the silkscreen layers from the silkscreen layers.

Myc

 

[nbw]

Ah sorry Mycroft I missed that bit. Thanks. 250 hole limit seems reasonable. A 40X, a dozen resistors, a few LEDs, a few transistors... might come to 100-150. I'll download the Diptrace tonight and give it a go. I'm a bit nervous with the photosheets I've got - they're pretty expensive and I don't want to mess them up so if Diptrace produces the exact proper size of the PCB like you say, that's one less place to me to get it wrong.

The image you posted in #11 and the attachment - I guess you can import that into Diptrace?

 

[Mycroft2152]

Ah sorry Mycroft I missed that bit. Thanks. 250 hole limit seems reasonable. A 40X, a dozen resistors, a few LEDs, a few transistors... might come to 100-150. I'll download the Diptrace tonight and give it a go. I'm a bit nervous with the photosheets I've got - they're pretty expensive and I don't want to mess them up so if Diptrace produces the exact proper size of the PCB like you say, that's one less place to me to get it wrong.

The image you posted in #11 and the attachment - I guess you can import that into Diptrace?

The pdf in post #11 was done in DIPTRACE schematic. I just selected the different components form the library I created. You can print it out directly or also save it as a bmp or jpg. I converted it to a pdf for posting. I generally just print it out directly for toner transfer.

One note, you are not limited to the "blue film", inkjet photo paper and many glossy magazine pages (Playboy) work well also. It just takes a little longer to soak off the paper.

In the DIPTRACE PCB program, you click on VIEW to see the print out of the schematic. You can select the layers individually, or combine them for a good overview.

DIPTRACE makes the whole process pretty simple and easy.

Myc

 

[moxhamj]

Re Mycroft2152 "One note, you are not limited to the "blue film", inkjet photo paper and many glossy magazine pages (Playboy) work well also. It just takes a little longer to soak off the paper."

I've heard of people buying Playboy for the articles, but buying it because it has the best paper for heat transfer PCBs? That is a first!

Is there a faint watermark of the centrefold on all your PCBs?

 

[Mycroft2152]

Re Mycroft2152 "One note, you are not limited to the "blue film", inkjet photo paper and many glossy magazine pages (Playboy) work well also. It just takes a little longer to soak off the paper."

I've heard of people buying Playboy for the articles, but buying it because it has the best paper for heat transfer PCBs? That is a first!

Sometimes having a "legitimate" reason for a purchase helps convince the better half!

"Honey. I need it for making pcbs"




Myc

 

[nbw]

Haha or Silicon Chip magazine "check out the legs on that PIC!!!! Look at that (wire) stripper! And don't forget the search for Hot Contacts" (oh, there's no end)

I meant the image with the various chip layouts... did you create the special picaxe layouts in Diptrace, and save them for future use?

I thought I'd give the blue film a go first to get my confidence up, before going for the probably-cheaper etching tank etc. (Might be a Xmas present from my little angels - 1.5yr old girl and 4.5 yr boy)

 

[Mycroft2152]

nbw,

I created a library of picaxe components for DIPTRACE. I went through the Rev_Ed manuals and made a list of all the components used, then created a schematic symbol for each of them.

I find the "live bug" style easier to understand than the generic square blocks. That is the library I posted earlier. Copy the library to your hard drive and then you can use it in DIPTRACE. Each of the schematic symbols has an associated pcb footprint called "pattern". DIPTRACE include a bunch of libraries with over 50,000 components.

From the library, you simply select the symbol and paste it onto the sheet. After you have connected the symbols into a circuit <CTRL-B> puts all the footprints onto a pcb board. You can then manually or auto place the components, then manually or autoroute the connectins. Note, a good looking pcb layout is somewhat of an art, and most autorouted pcbs need a bit of tweaking.

It's actually pretty easy, just gve it a try and spend a little time playing with it. If yo get stuck, send me as a private message and I'll give you some ideas.

Myc

 

[nbw]

Thanks Mycroft. I downloaded it and am having a bit of a go. It's pretty easy to use. I will download your library.

One thing I did find with the autorouting is it wanted to put some traces onto 2 planes, and the software wouldn't let me delete either of the top or bottom layers. I was going to start with single-sided boards, so maybe I just need to be more careful how I place the components.

thanks for your tips!

 

[nbw]

Ok... so the first (DOH!) problem. I downloaded your library, put it into crogfiles/diptrace/lib - renamed the extension to .eli and also tried .lib ... when I tried to get to it via the Library Set-Up option, I can't see it anywhere. It's definitely in the folder. When it's named .lib, I can see it but it says invalid library when I double-click it. When named .eli you can't see it at all because of course it's looking for .lib files. Am I doing something stupid or is there a little quirk to importing libraries?

 

[westaust55]

Hi MyCroft,

As one who has not utilised a CAD package to date, tending to draw up schematics and board/module layouts more by hand, took the opportunity to look at the DipTrace info and looks very interesting.

Think I will look into it further &#8211; not so muchfrom the intent of designing boards as I mainly use proto-boards but possibly as a means of tidy schematic drawing.

Mind you - I can like also do a layout of my modules similating the short tracks of the protoboards that I use for a more professional diagram as well.

All in line with my thoughts that . . .
The first day you (I) do not learn something new is your (my) first day in a wooden box

 

[centrex]

You might find the serial display only is available in 16x2 and you need to display more info and thus need a 20x4 display and they only come as parallel.


re the above quote from Dr A about 20X4 displays. If anyone needs a serial 4X20 display I would have a look at http:/www.wulfden.org/k107/k107-1r3.pdf
it is a small addon board to drive any sort of display with the 'serout' command from a Picaxe. The price is right and prompt delivery.
Regards

 

[Mycroft2152]

Ok... so the first (DOH!) problem. I downloaded your library, put it into crogfiles/diptrace/lib - renamed the extension to .eli and also tried .lib ... when I tried to get to it via the Library Set-Up option, I can't see it anywhere. It's definitely in the folder. When it's named .lib, I can see it but it says invalid library when I double-click it. When named .eli you can't see it at all because of course it's looking for .lib files. Am I doing something stupid or is there a little quirk to importing libraries?

nbw,

You had me confused there for a moment!

There are 2 types of libraries in DIPTRACE. The "eli" library is for the schematic editor and the "lib" is for the pcb editor.

The 'eli" schematic library has the pcb patterns (footprints) associated with each of the schematic symbols' while the 'lib" library is just the pcb patterns.

I generally first draw out the schematic, then let DIPTRACE autamtically put all the patterns onto a pcb layout. Then I move thngs around. I forgot that some people like to draw out just the pcb and hand select the pcb patterns. As Dippy says, "Horses for courses!"

I have attached the pcb patterns only library. Change the "dsn" extension to "lib". When you look at it, your will see that many components have multiple lengths. This makes it easier to use, let's say a resistor, when somtiomes you need a little more or less room on the pcb.

I've also attached a pdf of some of the patterns, for those interested in correctly sized pads for homebrewed pcbs.

To use the library, you need to add it to the menu bar by Library>Library Setup>Add then move it over to the Active panel on the left "<<"

Myc

Note: DIPTRACE includes 4 programs, Schematic Editor, PCB Editor, Component Editor and Pattern Editor. If you want to tweak any of the footprints or schematic symbols, it's pretty easy with these tools.

 

[Mycroft2152]

Thanks Mycroft. I downloaded it and am having a bit of a go. It's pretty easy to use. I will download your library.

One thing I did find with the autorouting is it wanted to put some traces onto 2 planes, and the software wouldn't let me delete either of the top or bottom layers. I was going to start with single-sided boards, so maybe I just need to be more careful how I place the components.

thanks for your tips!

nbw,

Some tips

Use the autorouter setup function to select the number of layers used.

You need to select the active layer on the menu bar to manually edit a trace.

If yoou haven't already, change the top and bottom layers into different colors

The UNROUTE function will remove the tracks but keep the connections.

You can move the traces to different layers by Switch Trace Layer.

Spend some time playing with DIPTRACE to get familiar, you and always UNDO with CRTL-z

Myc

For you diehard EAGLE fans, DIPTRACE will import EAGLE schematics, pcbs and libraries for use within DIPTRACE.

 

[nbw]

AH. this is starting to make sense. Righto, I'm going to catch some z-zzz now and have a good go at it tomorrow night. Thanks! This is going to be a bit of fun

 

[muckypups]

I am very new to all this, and I have been trying various CAD programs out.
I have Eagle which seems to have a lot going for it, if only I knew how to create footprints AND link them to the schematics correctly !
I also have Diptrace but I haven't played with that too much as it runs on Windows and I use linux as my desktop machine. No flames intended, I just use linux because I like it.
Anyway, there is a very capable set of programs collected under the name of gEDA, which provide all the functionality of Eagle et al but with no proprietary restrictions. I still have to learn how to use it though !
My current issue is getting an Eagle format footprint out of Eagle and into any other program.
This of course takes longer than building a real circuit.
I've gone for stripboard for the 2nd reincarnation of my project, just to confirm results in the correct environment. It's also not too much hassle to change things (slightly). Once it's all working I may have a crack at making a proper pcb, but that's a way off yet.

Regarding the Playboy method, does anybody think it's possible to actually print solder mask in full colour somehow ?

Alan

 

[Mycroft2152]

Muckypups,

Try running DIPTRACE under Wine. Use the Open GL graphics driver for bet results. I've seen some messages on th4 DIPTRACE Yahoo group about it. I have no personal experience.

Myc

Myc

 

[muckypups]

Thanks Mycroft.
I tried diptrace under wine and it has a problem during the install. I think a window gets hidden, but it's modal so unless I click it nothing happens !
I also tried the picaxe VSM under wine, and it gets so far then gives up and I've just got the tutorials. I was pleased to find with Eagle that they have a specific linux version on their web site.
I need a new graphics card for my windows pc and then I'll have a crack at diptrace again.

cheers

Alan

 

[oldjoe]

Answer to nbw on the use of expressPCB

Hi nbw


your answer:

@ Oldjoe:
THis ExpressPCB - can you design your own PCBs and then print them out, rather than sending them off for $$ and manufacture? I have some press-n-peel pcb film and some copper board I'd like to give a go, and am looking for a free software package to design my (fairly simple) PCBs, then print them out onto my film.

Yes and no .... yes, expresspcb software will let you print out each layer, but ....

no, I do not consider it very useful to making your own boards. The only print options are 1:1 scale and "expand to fill page" 1:1 is too small for me, and fill page is not to any scale.

Oh well, I like expressPCB, but it is not for everyone. For anyone outside the States the shipping cost would be a killer!!

Ask and I will try to post an image of the board. I can do it in a .jdf, a .dxf or a .emf


oldjoe

 

[oldjoe]

Showing off

HI all that want a CAD Program

This is the output from the expressPCB software:

A picture of the artwork in 1:1 and a photo of the finished Boards:




all in .jpg

oldjoe

 

[nbw]

@ oldjoe - that's a pretty tidy piece of boarding. Good job! Yes, the shipping to NZ for anything is real bad. 2 years ago I wanted to buy a pH meter from the states. It cost US$58, and weighed about 1/2 a pound. They wanted US$95 to ship it to NZ!!!!

I like this DIPTRACE, I'll need to play around a bit with it, and provided I don't go over the 250 hole limit, I should be ok.