Is a picaxe08m a 12f683

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cheeseslice

Member
Excuse my total ignorance but I'm confused.

My friend has given me a few picaxe08m chips, or at least that is what he says they are and he programs them as if they are, yet on the chip it says:

12f683
l/p e3 32k
0639

I've tried to find the answer on here but I think it's so basic everyone already knows the answer.

Sorry for being a tube!
 
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eclectic

Moderator
@cheeseslice.

From Manual 1, page 12.

PICAXE chip labels
PICAXE chips are pre-programmed and tested Microchip PICmicro™
microcontrollers. They are therefore ‘stamped’ with the Microchip part name.
• PICAXE-08 PIC12F629
• PICAXE-08M PIC12F683

Of course, to be certain, they will need to be tested using
the download circuit and cable.

e
 
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cheeseslice

Member
eclectic said:
@cheeseslice.

From Manual 1, page 12.

PICAXE chip labels
PICAXE chips are pre-programmed and tested Microchip PICmicro™
microcontrollers. They are therefore ‘stamped’ with the Microchip part name.
• PICAXE-08 PIC12F629
• PICAXE-08M PIC12F683

Of course, to be certain, they will need to be tested using
the download circuit and cable.

e
Click to expand...
Thankyou for your quick reply, I'm acutally on page 8 right now. I just thought I'd hit refresh to see if anyone had got back to me.

Just as a matter of interest. Is it then possible to buy 12f683 chips and program them to be picaxe. I'm not intending to do this, just curious.
 
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eclectic

Moderator
cheeseslice said:
Thankyou for your quick reply, I'm acutally on page 8 right now. I just thought I'd hit refresh to see if anyone had got back to me.

Just as a matter of interest. Is it then possible to buy 12f683 chips and program them to be picaxe. I'm not intending to do this, just curious.
Click to expand...
No chance!
The magic spells can only be made by RevEd.

e
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Don't worry Cheesy.
You're not the first to think they can save some money...
And you're not the first to use "My friend...." and "...just curious" ;)

And before you ask your next question, NO, you cannot copy the firmware off the PICAXE onto blank PICs.

As eclectic suggests; try them with a download circuit.

If you look through the little window underneath you may be able to see some blue electrons in the registers. This will confirm the chip as PICAXE, or am I six weeks too soon?
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
12F683 is what the PICAXE-08M is built from.

If they are 08M's or unprogrammed PICmicro then a Firmware check should reveal their PICAXE identity. Make sure you do a hard reset ( turn power on a little after clicking the "Firmware" button ) if you don't get a "Yee Ha!" result first time.

If they are used PICmicro then be careful putting them into an existing 08M circuit for firmware checking because they may be incompatible; inputs may be programmed as outputs ). If that is suspected, construct a simple breadboard circuit with just power and 22K/10K download circuit and test with that. They'd also be safe in an 08M Proto Board that hasn't got external hardware connected ( that is, it is just a PCB, download circuit and power ).
 
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alhoop

Member
I just received some 14m and 28x1 chips from PHAnderson who states that he is the US distributor for Picaxe products.
I was surprised to find that I had to go to the manual to identify them. When questioned, he stated that it is a cost avoiding measure.
I really like the Picaxe concept, but why would a manufacturer not mark his product?
I would like to recommend the Picaxe chips in an article for a national magazine but don't think
most readers would be able to correlate the Microchip number to the Picaxe number.

Al
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
alhoop said:
I would like to recommend the Picaxe chips in an article for a national magazine but don't think
most readers would be able to correlate the Microchip number to the Picaxe number.
Click to expand...
Thousands of customers don't have that problem each year! If you buy a PICAXE chip from a recognised distributor then that is what you expect to receive, it is not confusing for the vast majority of our customers!

Labelling is considerably expensive to do, and we try to keep the chips as economical as possible.

If you want to do it yourself then we can supply high quality labels e.g.
http://194.201.138.187/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies/Products/LabelMaster/SubProducts/LAB001
 
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pha555

Senior Member
And, I also recommended that you could make up your own labels.

I have every reason to believe that Model Rail people are as smart as anyone.

P H Anderson


alhoop said:
I just received some 14m and 28x1 chips from PHAnderson who states that he is the US distributor for Picaxe products.
I was surprised to find that I had to go to the manual to identify them. When questioned, he stated that it is a cost avoiding measure.
I really like the Picaxe concept, but why would a manufacturer not mark his product?
I would like to recommend the Picaxe chips in an article for a national magazine but don't think
most readers would be able to correlate the Microchip number to the Picaxe number.

Al
Click to expand...
 
S

slurp

Senior Member
Mycroft2152 said:
Microchip Direct will program a PIC with your own code and print the label for about 15 cents each in lots of 100.
Click to expand...
I thought Rev-Ed has the gear to program their own batches without lables... I save 15 cents, my trusty HB pencil works well, occasionally I use correction fluid or homemade lables.

:D

regards,
colin
 
Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
That is our point entirely, 15 cents is very expensive. It costs us far less than that to program each chip using our in-house robotic programmers.

Imagine a typical school buying 300 chips a year. 10 cents extra at manufacturing means at least 20 cents extra at retail price by the time the distributors and manufacturer have made profits. 20 cents x 300 is $60 per school extra, on their already stretched budgets.

Multiply $60 by all our schools customers and the numbers are enormous! It is our choice, and we still believe it a good one, not to label chips by default and we have no plans to change that!

That said, as already explained, if an individual wants to pay a little extra for a label then that is also fine, we provide them
http://194.201.138.187/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies/Products/LabelMaster/SubProducts/LAB001
 
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W

westaust55

Moderator
pha555 said:
And, I also recommended that you could make up your own labels.

I have every reason to believe that Model Rail people are as smart as anyone.

P H Anderson
Click to expand...
I fully concur Peter :D

As well as Techsource in the UK, Microzed here in Australia supply labels in sheets. http://www.microzed.com.au/labels.html

But like model railways, there are a lot of other bits/chips besides PICAXE chips used in various projects, so the roll one's own label approach can be worthwhile and relatively economical.
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9753&p=68899

EDIT: My sheet is done in Excel and while the referenced post has a pdf version, I can update and upload as a file that forum members can use in Excel if the interest is there . . .
 
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2

212

Senior Member
I really wish they came labeled too, but I understand it is not up for a vote. I'll be ordering some labels, but I will wait for the 20x2 to get there too :)
 
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manuka

Senior Member
I've voiced concern on this many times before(sigh...), & personally insist that ALL PICAXE projects on my watch are VERY neatly labelled. It's of course a sign of professionalism that such "paperwork" is attended too, much in the style of felt tip pen dating batteries when they're inserted in projects. You don't do this ? SHAME...
 
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manuka

Senior Member
It's not only slack, but (aside from leakage etc due to neglect) frustrating & potentially costly! The latter relates to old cells being mixed up & confused with new ones. Some then end up being put back in the device, which naturally works poorly- it may be even considered junk. Meanwhile brand new cells (increasingly worth a proverbial arm & leg) were thrown in the bin...
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Sounds like a good idea to me Stan.

All documentation is good, as is version number/date on Manuals and Data Sheets ;)
 
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Mycroft2152

Senior Member
Technical said:
That is our point entirely, 15 cents is very expensive. It costs us far less than that to program each chip using our in-house robotic programmers.

Imagine a typical school buying 300 chips a year. 10 cents extra at manufacturing means at least 20 cents extra at retail price by the time the distributors and manufacturer have made profits. 20 cents x 300 is $60 per school extra, on their already stretched budgets.

Multiply $60 by all our schools customers and the numbers are enormous! It is our choice, and we still believe it a good one, not to label chips by default and we have no plans to change that!

That said, as already explained, if an individual wants to pay a little extra for a label then that is also fine, we provide them
http://194.201.138.187/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.TechSupplies/Products/LabelMaster/SubProducts/LAB001
Click to expand...
I have seen some creative justifications to sell products in my time, but that one tops the list!

Just think how much money Microchips could save their customers by selling chips with no printing.

How much is someones time worth at a school to go through a bin to sort out the mixed chips.?

So the bottom line is that Rev_Ed would rather extra increase profits by selling labels than acting professionally.

I'll repeat Stan's comment,"SHAME!"
 
hippy

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
Mycroft2152 said:
So the bottom line is that Rev_Ed would rather extra increase profits by selling labels than acting professionally.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Technical will have their own comments to make but I see nothing "unprofessional" about not attaching label at point of manufacture and the charge of profiteering is rather disingenuous.

By not attaching labels the cost of PICAXE's are reduced compared to what they would be if they were attached and customers had no choice in the matter.

For those who want labels they are available. People are free to choose to use their own home grown labelling or marking schemes or to do without. It is about customer choice.

One could use the same argument that Rev-Ed are unprofessionally maximising profits by not providing sockets, resonators, decoupling capacitors, reset switches and resistors, even download cables with every PICAXE chip, but I doubt most customers would appreciate being forced to buy a bundle of things that they do not want, do not need and having no choice in the matter.

The bottom line is that Rev-Ed sell component parts and it is for the customer to choose which parts they need or wish to have. Many customers are happy to have their PICAXE chips not labelled because this reduces cost. Those who want to have their chips labelled have a number of choices for that.
 
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alhoop

Member
hippy said:
..........
One could use the same argument that Rev-Ed are unprofessionally maximising profits by not providing sockets, resonators, decoupling capacitors, reset switches and resistors, even download cables with every PICAXE chip, but I doubt most customers would appreciate being forced to buy a bundle of things that they do not want, do not need and having no choice in the matter.
.....
Click to expand...
Fallacious argument, perhaps you'd like to rethink it.
I have bought Picaxe chips from three different suppliers, one who labeled and two who did not. There was no difference in price but I would pay extra for labeling and will buy from the one supplier that does label. But it is Picaxe's business model and I thank them for making the chips and editor available.

Thanks
Al
 
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Mycroft2152

Senior Member
hippy said:
By not attaching labels the cost of PICAXE's are reduced compared to what they would be if they were attached and customers had no choice in the matter.
Click to expand...
ROTFLMAO!

By the same logic, automobile manufacturers could have saved their customers a lot of money by selling them unpainted cars.

This is really starting to sound like a Monty Python skit.
 
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slurp

Senior Member
This sounds like an argument that can run and run, some would like labels because they can't remember what they bought or haven't managed their PICaxes vs. "raw" PICs. (who's unprofessional there :p bottom line is really requirements and preferences)

The BIG advantages this product gives me is simple programming interface but more importantly low cost. I'd rather Rev. Ed produce the product as they do and save me the pennies on the label, the lettering Microchip put on the 08 allow me to see enough to identity the chip. Most labels are for the benefit of other when they want to see what I'm using.

This isn't like painting the car, you need the paint to avoid a rusty heap and it's not like a label is as difficult to produce as a car is to paint.

regards,
Colin
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Reckon you're right there Colin.

I think maybe hippy got a little over-excited - probably as he and me have seen this subject several times before.

I would love labels, but shall we just take it as read that they, by default, won't be here for the foreseeable?

Then we can move on and buy some labels , paper and glue or Tippex ...
 
B

BeanieBots

Moderator
slurp said:
This sounds like an argument that can run and run, some would like labels because they can't remember what they bought or haven't managed their PICaxes vs. "raw" PICs. (who's unprofessional there :p bottom line is really requirements and preferences)

The BIG advantages this product gives me is simple programming interface but more importantly low cost. I'd rather Rev. Ed produce the product as they do and save me the pennies on the label, the lettering Microchip put on the 08 allow me to see enough to identity the chip. Most labels are for the benefit of other when they want to see what I'm using.
Click to expand...
Agree fully.
Besides, how many users have both raw PICs AND PICAXE.
Of those who do have both, how do they cope once they have programmed one of their RAW PICs?

All chips come labelled. Programmable chips simply require a little discepline on the users part.
My only gripe is that age related poor eyesight means I can no longer read dark grey on slightly darker grey and would like a new marking method that produced markings that are readable by the visually challenged like myself.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to being disceplined about putting PICAXEs in the PICAXE drawer and using a maginfier when in doubt.
When required, the Brother PT-80 produces self adheasive lables which fit nicely onto chips.
 
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papaof2

Senior Member
BeanieBots said:
Agree fully.
Besides, how many users have both raw PICs AND PICAXE.
Click to expand...
Some of us do ;-)

The PICAXEs are in a parts cabinet with drawer labels like 08 and 18; the chips have paper labels on top with the type (i.e., 08M).

The bare PICs are in a separate container with "PICs" written on top in LARGE letters.

The original markings on the chips are easy to read - when under the workbench lamp with its 4" magnifier lens...

John
 
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manuka

Senior Member
I've found it's not PIC/PICAXE queries that confuses, but rather "look-alike" logic ICs & 555s etc. Impressionable young minds tend to think anything with 8 legs is a 08M, & end up tossing any DIP8 into parts drawers too, with later circuitry nightmares. I've even run into this with bad hair day/hungover tertiary students...

Of course IC labelling is IMHO a major gripe- all that sophisticated hi-tech within & yet makers can't stretch beyond hazy embossed codes.Grrr! Thanks to being short sighted,my own macro vision is great, but many oldies often can't read a thing...

Perhaps the BBROYGBPGW resistor colour code system may have some PICAXE mileage- this finds use for the likes of in house photocopier codes (ROYG = 2345 etc) to defeat non electrical users! Hence a 14M could have small brown(1) & yellow (4) paint dots on a white ("Tippex" ?) background. A 555 could have 3 Blue dots, & a 741 Purple,Yellow,Brown. It'd be quicker to do than having to neatly print the details -ask any 10yo. girl for her colouring in pens! Stan.
 
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