Good School Based Projects

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rbond9

New Member
Hi there,

I have been diping in and out of this forum for a while and have noticed that many members seem to be involved in education at some level.

I teach 11-18 year olds Design Technology and am constantly on the look out for interesting projects for my pupils to do, I have used the PICAXE 08M with 13 year olds and the 14M and 18X chips with GCSE students.

There are a lot of kits out there that I am interested in but they are too expensive, for example, KITRONIC have a good thermometer for about £4 each :eek: but I am looking at a budget of half that. :eek:

Any suggestions? :confused:

We use PIC LOGICATOR (flowchart method) as our programming editor and can produce our own PCB's.
 
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jglenn

Senior Member
As I have said before, I plan to do it, sometime, a solar panel sun tracker.

All you need is a couple IR detectors in tubes, a servo to tilt the panel,
and the picaxe. Testing I did last summer with a 30W panel showed it has
to be at right angles to the sun for max current.
 
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rbond9

New Member
I am looking to find a project that 225, 12-13 year olds can do with teachers that are not specialist in electronics.
Current projects include:
Year 7 - Automatic night light
Year 8 - Steady hand game (PICAXE 08M)
Year 9 - MP3 Amplifier
 
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russbow

Senior Member
Have a look at the thread "Need help with 2 x 7 seg display", Manuka's digital thermometer response. Made one for under £3. Amazed at the accuracy.

Sorry don't know how to reference the thread properly.

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alband

Senior Member
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SilentScreamer

Senior Member
My school uses the cyberpet projects, though funding only allows top sets to do it, the rest make moister sensors with transistors and LEDs. The make the PCBs with permanent marker and copper clad board.
 
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Tim036

Member
For the more advanced students, building a Pseudo Random Pattern generator from logic, then writing the same one in Basic, then programing the Pic to do the same job.

It demonstrates that Pic software can be a more elegant solution than pure Hardware. (not to mention cheaper)

Costs next to nothing !

A difficult concept to explain and understand in pure words.

:)

Tim
 
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mman1506

New Member
you could use the picaxe driver board (023?) and 2 quick action switch to make a simple robot kids can program .
 
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bgrabowski

Senior Member
We have a popular KS3 project based on the 08M. It is a two-player "reaction game". Each player has a push to make switch and an indicator LED. This uses Pins 0,1,3,4. There is also a trigger LED which is connected in parallel with a piezo sounder to Pin 2.

When the game is switched on it plays a short "start" tune. The game starts with the LED flashing, accompanied by a ticking sound from the piezo, for a random time. When the ticking/flashing stops the first player to press their button wins. If a player cheats by pressing during the ticking/flashing phase, the other player wins.

When a player wins their LED is lit and their tune is played. The next round is then indicated with the "start" tune playing again.

It works well in terms of differentiation too. Less able students can be given most of the programme for the game play but write or download the three tunes. The gifted and talented can have a go at writing the programme on their own. Most students are able, with tuition, to write the routines to test for button presses and to switch on LEDs.

I have also seen an interesting update of the "nightlight" project at another local school. It is "mood lighting". In its simplest form it has red, green, and blue LEDs lit in random combinations to create interesting effects when placed in a housing which diffuses light. This has a lot of promise for extension work where the light patterns can be made to respond to inputs such as sound or temperature.

We have had dozens of GCSE projects based on Picaxe each year over the last 6 years. Contact me if you would like more details of some these.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
A significant schools $ issue relates to projects being "take home" or "in class"- suggest you clarify! For "take home" (which kids will naturally appreciate), how about hacking some cheap solar garden lamps ? Parents enjoy seeing them used more creatively, & the lamps also make a great source of parts. Best of all they WORK when issued!

That tight budget of yours will be stressed by such boring things such as switches,cases & batteries of course too. NB-AVOID 9V batteries at all costs- AAs are the way to go (& NiCds can be rescued from solar garden lamps too)

Aside from those nifty healthy competition ideas,keep in mind that KIDS LOVE MOTORS! In the past I've imported swags of extremely efficient DC & steppers from US surplus supplier Electronics Goldmine => http://www.goldmine-elec.com/ at prices just ~US$1-2 each. They've a small DC motor drawing only ~10mA (at under a 1 Volt) unloaded, which can even be driven by a single solar garden lamp rescued PV ( ~2V at ~30mA). This makes a great solar powered "windmill" with a soft blade the kids can cut from discarded plastic/cardboard carton etc. I've one around somewhere if you want details.

The EG micro steppers are even better, & are so efficient that they can DIRECTLY drive from a 08M.
See details => www.picaxe.orconhosting.net.nz/stepdemo.jpg Stan
 
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Technical

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
manuka said:
The EG micro steppers are even better, & are so efficient that they can DIRECTLY drive from a 08M.
See details => www.picaxe.orconhosting.net.nz/stepdemo.jpg Stan
Click to expand...
You say 20mA at 5V - but is that unloaded - hold the spindle and that current will probably increase considerably, hence you are then in permanent chip damage territory. No driver is not to be recommended really.

Our biggest sellers for budget KS3 projects are listed here:

http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/cat_11.pdf
 
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manuka

Senior Member
Tech- NATURALLY I'm aware of load issues, but have had no failures using simple pointer/clock face/washing machine simulator pulsed loads. Even (briefly) stalled steppers on 3 x AAs have given no 08M problems.

My point is that enthusiasts are keen to explore initial stepper action cheaply & simply-even just a bare "flag" indicator on this EG stepper can give immense "Aha!" insights. In contrast, I've had tertiary level students spend days & $$ bumbling around with the likes of the schematic below,before they reach such " OMG-is THIS all they do" understandings.

I've said it many times before, but point out that near globally schools electronics budgets often run at the "smell of an oily rag" $($) per head stage. Only at tertiary level am I able to justify $$($) purchases per student. It's a priority issue of course -here in NZ schools sports & cultural trips regularly rustle up $$$($) funding per head, with $$$$ international meanders common .
 

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BeanieBots

Moderator
@Manuka,
Why is that and what can we (or anyone) do about it?

When compared to the $$$/student cost of field trips, arts materials, musical instruments, reading books etc, etc.
Why does the electronics student have to resort to using the wasted CDs from the media studies department for thier robot wheels.

This really infuriates me and especially in the UK where everyone moans and groans about our dying technical industry but there is abolutely no help from higher sources to do anything about it.

I was really fortunate during the science promotion of 2000-2003 to be commisioned by the BBC to give some robotics master classes. The toughest part of the whole project was to devise a robot that actually did something and could be taken home by the students with a budget of £5/student and that was during a SPECIAL PROMOTION period!

After scoping and presenting the options to some senior educationionlists and re-negotiating with the BBC and a promise of lots of free labour from myself, I managed to get the budget raised to £15/student. This was only possible because I had the ear of the right people and was able to impress them with how much could be done for very little using PICAXE products and a little imagination. Eventually, the students were able to design, build and take home a fully autonimous light seeking robot for £12.50/student all controlled using a PICAXE 18A and the high power project board.

Everyone who was involved really enjoyed themselves and the people in a position to make a difference were impressed and made the right noises about addressing the problems. However, the BBC pulled the plug the following year and it has fallen by the wayside again:mad:

Open to any suggestions how re-launch such initiatives.
 
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Rickharris

Senior Member
BeanieBots said:
@Manuka,
Why is that and what can we (or anyone) do about it?
...
Open to any suggestions how re-launch such initiatives.
Click to expand...
Unfortunatly few people have any interest in technology/engineering in any form (oily rag syndrome) This is very limiting when trying to extract cash - They can see the point of 11 people kicking a ball around - millions watch and most boys and some girls are interested.

How to improve - Smaller focused groups who display the necessary interest - Often as an after school club - If prepared to work with schools then as an engineer inresedance as they are obliged to run after school clubs - our technology club is very popular - 15 - 20 or so, more or less every week. Students who want to learn will tackle difficult things such as programming.

Scout groups - Youth clubs - or the American Maker fair seems to be quite popular. HOWEVER funding is always an issue perhaps there is a central government fund that would respond or pay as you come to cover costs.

Problem is - it all takes up a LOT of time for very little reward beyond spreading the word which is not really our job and should be a central requiremenst of government/education.

EVEN D&T in schools is now an option subject after age 14. - and not very well taken up generally. GCSE classes of 7 to 12 students in a 2000 seat school!
 
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manuka

Senior Member
I've encountered such resource bias ever since the NASA moon shots were wound down 35 years back! Admin., beancounters, careers advisors & (especially) parents now typically feel ""electronic items are fun, but they're complicated & there's no career money in it". Go for law, accounting, banking, nursing... anything else!

You can hardly blame them when hi tech prices near halve every 18 months. I've just been looking at netbooks, which a year back averaged US$499. Superior models are now are at US$300... Stan.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Good points Stan.

I was 'enlightened' the other day in my local Pub.
Some lads were saying that scientists etc. were a bunch of *****ers and then promptly spent 10 minutes showing each other their latest mobiles (cellulars).
They obviously think that all their flashy toys are magicked from thin air.
I swear people are getting thicker.

This is really quite sad. I didn't realise it was all as bad as this.
Is there a nerdy-image problem as well?
Maybe everyone is looking for a quick quid and are frightened by a potetnially long/hard career path?
Even the (rare) science progs on TV look like they're aimed at 5 year-olds and not bright 12+ year-olds.
I'm sure there was a lot more on TV when I were a lad.

Perhaps the BBC should be reminded that they are a 'Public Service' broadcaster... and not a multi-million-pound bonus generator for their board members.
Isn't there a General Election next year?
 
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BeanieBots

Moderator
You may well have hit on the underlying issue there Dippy!
Television. Yes, there WAS a lot more coverage of science related topics a few decades ago. Esp. BBC2.

I think it realtes to the current fad of "I want to be famous" for no other reason than appearing on TV.
Look at the success of Robot Wars and Technogames.
Clubs and after school societies were packed solid when they were on.
They rapidly dwindled away when it no longer shown on TV. (no chance of getting on telly).
Or, does it just need a little air-time to be seen as "cool".

My personal experience is that students are scared away from electronics like it's some black magic only performed by dark mysterious geeks in underground caverns. Once they've been shown how simple the basics really are and have made their first LED flash, they love it.
It's getting them to take the first step that's hard.

Then of course there is the money.
An electronics designer could earn more in the 80's than they can now. That probably reflects the cost-cutting associated with consumer electronics but try finding a good quality experienced engineer. They are few and far between so it's not like it's a supply & demand thing, or is it?

The mobile phone is a good example. There is several hundred man years of design in one of those! However, they are so common, it must be very easy must'nt it??

I also agree that anything remotely technical looks to be aimed at 5 year olds.
Is our nation really that thick these days?
Do the general public have zero understanding of anything technical?
Do they have zero interest in understanding?

I really don't know. What I do know is that it's a snow-ball effect. Lack of engineering roles reduces the number of engineers. Lack of engineers reduces the number of roles. Won't be long before the UK once famous for its engineer has none left at all.

[end rant]
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Good rant - I totally agree.

They've even removed most of the pseudo-science from Dr Who ;)

I surrender, what's the answer?
I wish it could be solved on the Forum, but sadly...
 
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BeanieBots

Moderator
Oh yes. Doctor Who. The BBC again!
Now there's at least two projects you CAN'T get your school to do.
K9, like the wonderfull project recently published here, and/or a Dalek which makes a nice robot platform with lots of scope for camera and sensors.
Anything BBC related needs their permission in writting and payment of a royalty. Otherwise, they WILL come after you. Be warned.
They had the Dalek Builders Guild shut down for breach of copyright.
 
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Dippy

Moderator
Oh damn. Does that mean I'll have to dispose of my inflatable Perry? (Peter Davison era, healthy girl)
That will be a let down.
 
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gidgee

Member
As the the good Professor would say, WHY IS IT SO, well here goes, I am a oldie trying to keep the brain cells in good shape which is why I am a member of this forum, having retired and with plenty of Time on my hands, “the only devil I know is a stubbie a night”, I have a friend who is pardon the pun Switched on and prepared to devise a layout and instruct in a basic Picaxe program before or after school till as such time a teacher became adept and could take over the tutoring, my part was to supply 20 picaxe kits or what ever that was required by my friend, more background, we live in a small town in central Queensland down under, We sought and gained a audience with the Principle, that is where it still is, no amount of explaining that it will cost the school zero monies and when I said there could be a Bill Gates lurking in a year one class if just given a chance eyes rolled, I afraid Dippy got it right, They take the you beaut toys for granted, no thought of the years and the amount monies and skills required to allow them to junk them and buy another, one thing I did get right years ago , design is where the money will be made, not repairing as it all ends up in the dump, This also bugs me, all the resources going to waste in school yards after school Hours not being used, oops forgot that is when the vandals get thier grounding, keep punching guys some youngster may thank you all one day

Don't Steal the Government Hates Competition
 
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CliveWilcox

Member
rbond,

just an idea, LEDs cost just a few pence. 5000 for £100.00 (22 for each project with a few left over) Get loads of them. You have already stated which chips you use so a wide selection of projects are possible.

Cardboard, sticky tape, laser printer are i assume, also available to you. (Raid the artwork dept. ) It would save you even more money if you get the kids to bring it from home. A bit like the old days (Blue Peter)

Project ideas could be as simple as a flashing badge (leds for eyes), even a binary clock. Most of the kits out there have a package to finish off the job, get the kids to do that part. It then becomes part of it.

Also contact some of the companies out there that deal in LEDS (Marl is one) and ask the for a cheap bag for the kids. Always a good one (Sponsor)

Just my 2p worth.
 
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manie

Senior Member
My ##*%#^&*#@# ! And I thought I lived on the DARK Continent !

People are not getting thicker, we were ALL born that way, it is just that some refuse to remain thick and thus emerge as those with natural ability to aspire to more. And again, my gaaaawwwwwwddddddd, I thought it's only here in ANC coyntry. Glad to hear we're not the only ones, SORRY to hear we're ALL THE SAME ! It is a mess, is it not ? (or should that be "aint'it" ??
 
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rbond9

New Member
Wow,

Thanks for the response I will pm some of you for more details over the next couple of weeks if that is fine (busy at work as usual).

I am developing these projects for 2010 really as the current ones have some life in them yet so I am not in a mad rush.

I try to augment one project every couple of years to keep things fresh and stop the same projects going home for siblings!

One area I am looking into is the use of Supercapacitors in a 'sustainablilty' themed project. However, simple LED torches are boring. I can source 1.0F capacitors from the US for about 50p each delivered, any chaper options would be welcomed.

Just a couple of points though, I work in a Technology school so we teach DT to everyone (1000+ students) right upto GCSE level. Our funding is better than most but this is an expensive subject. Fortunatly we have never had to use door frames to build boxes but I am dettermined to get value for money.

Whilst I take a look at all the resources you have pointed me at so far, my department has one of its own in a fledgling state.

www.dtguru.piczo.com
 
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picnut

New Member
I am just wondering how you all settled on the level of presentation that you have ?. I noted that this month Unicef rated UK bottom out of the leading 21 industrialised nations ... in providing for children. Our mentors, the USA came second from bottom !.

Reminds me of some reports I have seen ..... "sets himself a low standard and has extreme difficulty in achieving it".

I would seriously like to know what level you would aim at, if you had the choice ?.

John

(who is about to introduce micro-processors into junior schools for 7 - 8 year olds).
 
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picnut

New Member
Never having previously worked with a children's school. I have little idea of the economics of it. The figure of £2 per child interested me.

The introduction of PIC development boards and USB download cables, obviously exceeds the above figure, per child and I was wondering if capital equipment counts in the equation, or whether one is allowed to amortise equipment costs across the total number of students that would be using it, during the equipments life ?.

jk
 
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Rickharris

Senior Member
In the UK a total departmental budget for a year would be about £3700 for 680 kids so by the time you extract cash support for exam projects your in the £2 to £3 a project max region. 11 to 18 year old kids.

For Picaxe we used bread board and for the learning part the kids didn't get to take it home. 'Buy your own' was my philosophy. For projects I would sell them as a subsidised rate as I judged practical.

A small robot with a simple bump and go sensor will cost about £7 - mostly the motors and picaxe. bodies made from card and painted, chassis from reclaimed MDF. Laser cut card is fast and very neat - black edges are the only down side.

We were extensive users of CNC equipment & laser cutter so presentation quality was high for most things. Time is a big factor but even card and hand work can and should be neat -(see manuaka's bread board layouts).

Manual skills in school children are few and far between so they have to learn. Doing is the best way. HOWEVER our 11 year old's are neither accurate, diligent or have patience (mostly) They have to be given exercises to learn these skills.

I taught programming from day 1 as I believe if you are going to get them involved in a future in this area they need to learn proper skills and not to mess with flow charts EXCEPT as a tool to get programme design an flow right.

There is no reason why 8 year old students should not understand:

High
Low
Wait
labels
Gosub and goto
If the
For next

IF it is explained to them step by step and built up with a chance to do it in practice.

Explain a bit - do a bit you can work wonders with an LED or 2. traffic lights are quite complex concepts, Flashing LEDs - emergency beacon flashing SOS - Warning lights - Knight rider lights (cyclon) - Light house - Fireflies - Night light - temperature alarm (simulate th temp sensor if you like) - All projects that need little more then a few LEDs and a picaxe and some imaginative programming.

better still they lend themselves in some cases to extending the learning for the most able to other wider commands - look up, Toggle, Readadc, Bit manipulation.


you have to think a bit wider then Oh its just flashing an LED on and off why not use a switch.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
PicNut:
£2 a child interested me...
Click to expand...
Such a near trivial sum should distress you- schools often run tech. depts. on teacher enterprise & coin shops!

Bless their hearts,but unless supervised near 1:1, such 7-8 yo. kids just will not have the hands on (or tidy up ...) skills for fiddly electronic components. Perhaps consider the hacked PICAXEd "Electronic Brain Box" approach that I've been using at this age level => http://picaxe.orconhosting.net.nz/snap.htm . Uptake has been enthusiastic here in NZ at least- YMMV in UK! I bought 30 of these "80 in 1" kits wholesale at ~£10 each in 2007 for NZ schools mad scientist work I do, & found them extremely engaging at this age level for simple motors,LEDs & sound circuits. It was only when a few (annoying!) sound modules failed that I pondered a PICAXE approach . Almost all the basic circuits can still be built after conversion, but sounds etc are now PICAXE sourced & under your control. I've just helped some 12 yo. locals organise one (for a regional science fair) as a "girls versus boys" PICAXE driven reaction time study.

I agree with Rick's comments re resources & basic commands - findings likely to be near universal! Stan
 

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manuka

Senior Member
Extra: Kiwi Andrew Hornblow, based in a very rural part of NZ's North Island, has put in enormous schools PICAXE service - mostly with 10-12 yo kids- & his classroom sessions enjoy great parental support. He's predictably a breadboard fan, but uses numerous "#8 wire" add ons- thumb-tack touch pads etc. See his enthusiastic Picasa resources => http://picasaweb.google.com/picaxe
 

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