Bluetooth help

rigidigital

Senior Member
I have mucked about with UHF chips. I would like to try Bluetooth but I need a range of 30 meters. Does anyone know of bluetooth tranceaivers capable of this. The PC would have a reciever or transceiver and the 20 keypads would have transmitters or maybe transceivers.

The idea once again is for the PC to pick up the numbers pressed on the numerous keypads.

I hope I have provided enough info.

Thanks All, Mike.
 

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
Class 1 Bluetooth devices have a power output of 100mW (20dBm) which should extend to 100m. Google reveals a number of Class 1 Bluetooth serial transceivers.
 

Gavinn

Member
Hi Mike,

Not sure what you are planning to do with Bluetooth but Bluetooth is not very suitable for point to many point connections. Bluetooth is made up of over 40 profiles, handsfree, OBEX, Serial, Dial-Up Networking and the like which run over a standard RF interface which looks after the radio aspects of the link. The data between the 2 points is encrypted based on the passcode/pin number used during pairing so you will not be able to have one receiver and multiple transmitters taking to it. The original spec allowed upto 9 devices to be connected to a master but in reality this is very rarely supported but it's not like the 433MHz RX/TX units you can buy.

Where Bluetooth would be useful in PICAXE would be the serial profile.
 

manuka

Senior Member
You'll have to tell us more about the setup, especially how frequently the keypads are being pushed. Budget ?
 

rigidigital

Senior Member
UHF or BLUETHOOTH

Hi Mike,
\ The data between the 2 points is encrypted based on the passcode/pin number used during pairing so you will not be able to have one receiver and multiple transmitters taking to it. The original spec allowed upto 9 devices to be connected to a master but in reality this is very rarely supported but it's not like the 433MHz RX/TX units you can buy.

Where Bluetooth would be useful in PICAXE would be the serial profile.
This is what I was afraid of. --->>(you will not be able to have one receiver and multiple transmitters taking to it. )

So that is the end of my bluetooth idea.

I shall explain my project which is not original and there are companies already providing what I originally ignorantly thought was my idea.

I intended to approach a weights/workout Gym. I was going to have a keypad on every machine in the gym. THe clients were to punch in their membership number, then the amout of weight they were lifting and then the number of reps to be performed.

The keypad would transmit this data to a transceiver to a computer. The PC would upload this data to a website. The client could then logon and look at graphs generated by the data they had punched in via the key pads.

I had this prototype working with cheap J-Car UHF chips. I would not use J-car chips again as they are cheap and the range is about 20feet. Also the picaxe chips I used did not have enough memory to store all the keypad inputs.

I find the bigger pixaxe chips hard to work with being a total novice. I would love to use the 08M if I can increase the memory with an add on memory chip. If not I will need help to understand the bigger picaxe chips or else I will use Basic stamps or SX chips frpm Parrallax.

I would prefer to stick with picaxe but I will need a partner or someone willing to help me.

I can program in C#, Java and VB.Net, and basic.

Thanks for your time.
regards,
Mike.
 

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
Yes, I2C Eeprom can be added to an 08M but you will have to write or find bit-banged code to drive it. That's not too hard but it will take up about 50% of your code space and requires two I/O lines ( one bi-directional ).
 

manuka

Senior Member
Agreed - aside from the new X2s, even the classic 18X leaps tall buildings ( & lifts heavy weights!).

Where are you ? Aus? I'm surprised the J-Car ( Jaycar?) units gave only 20 feet- I'd expect more like 10 times that indoors. What supply voltage were you using ? At one stage Jaycar was telling buyers incorrect values ! Stan
 

Gavinn

Member
Mike,

Maybe I didn't tell the whole truth with regard to Bluetooth. What you propose may work, what would happen is each BT module, on the 'floor' could buffer and then talk to the main PC in turn so the data will get there but not in real-time if another unit is already connected and using the link. This is dependent on the units allowing un-paired operation so you don't need to go through a pairing sequence each time a new unit (identified by MAC address) connects to it.

The new low power Bluetooth specification, or Bluetooth low energy as my old company calls is (http://www.csr.com/home.php), allows much of this to happen while dropping the link to save power. There are very few devices available just now which support low power Bluetooth at a hobby level. Low power Bluetooth is designed for sensor networks with a single battery giving years of power and then possibly the unit is disposed of when flat such as pedometers in shoes, pulse-rate monitors in watches etc all updating your mobile phone in a 'push' method with minimal signalling and thus power consumption.

Even though you say your idea is already out there, there is no reason not to make it a product, PICAXE is cheap and with the right features you can make it fit the need. I would also consider ways of linking the weight lifting, cycling distance or whatever into the PICAXE too using one of the inputs, you only need to send the total counts to the PC and do the number crunching there, you could hardcode each PICAXE with a station ID which is mapped on the PC as you might only see 20 reps for weight lifting but thousands [of revolutions] for cycling. Just an idea.
 

hippy

Ex-Staff (retired)
I find the bigger pixaxe chips hard to work with being a total novice. I would love to use the 08M if I can increase the memory with an add on memory chip. If not I will need help to understand the bigger picaxe chips or else I will use Basic stamps or SX chips frpm Parrallax.
The larger PICAXE's aren't nearly as complicated as they may first appear, you only have to use their abilities that you are familiar with and the more complicated commands can be put to one side until you feel comfortable with them. All PICAXE's support a core set of commands which are common across the range and there will undoubtedly be people here willing to help you if you have specific problems or don't understand something.

Many programs written for the 08M can run unchanged on the 18X and X1's and others may only require a small amount of tweaking. The X2's, although having a different pin naming convention, can be considered quite close to the 08M with their ability to use almost any pin as an input or output.

Moving to a non-PICAXE alternative is likely to involve just as much pain, and probably more so, than moving up to a larger PICAXE. You'll need to learn new programming commands, a new development environment, buy new programming tools, programming cables, development boards and the alternative may be far costlier.
 

BeanieBots

Moderator
In many ways the "bigger" chips are EASIER to use.
As Hippy states, they support the same basic command sets but have more memory and more I/O pins so there is less to worry about.

I frequently find myself quickly developing a project on a 'bigger' chip and then spending a lot of time squeezing it down to fit onto a smaller one.
 

rigidigital

Senior Member
Jay car chip

Agreed - aside from the new X2s, even the classic 18X leaps tall buildings ( & lifts heavy weights!).

Where are you ? Aus? I'm surprised the J-Car ( Jaycar?) units gave only 20 feet- I'd expect more like 10 times that indoors. What supply voltage were you using ? At one stage Jaycar was telling buyers incorrect values ! Stan
Well maybe if i had an ariel conneted to the chip instead of a bit of wire I would have got better range. powered everything with 4.5 volts.

The keypad i used I bought from microzed. It came with all circuitry and was 'plug and play',though it was very expensive. Can I setup a picaxe chip to enable a keypad?

I have found some good uhf chips from microzed.
 

rigidigital

Senior Member
Why I found the "bigger" picaxe harder.

Trying all sorts of tricks to extend an 08M is far, far more complicated than using a "bigger" picaxe.

What do you find difficult about the bigger chips?
I liked the simplicity of buying 08 and 14 picaxe. I just plugged them onto a breadboard with the stero connector and resistors and away i went. However I think I will give the "bigger" chips another chance. In the long run they will be simpler to use.
 

rigidigital

Senior Member
Thats Wild :)

Mike,

Maybe I didn't tell the whole truth with regard to Bluetooth. What you propose may work, what would happen is each BT module, on the 'floor' could buffer and then talk to the main PC in turn so the data will get there but not in real-time if another unit is already connected and using the link. This is dependent on the units allowing un-paired operation so you don't need to go through a pairing sequence each time a new unit (identified by MAC address) connects to it.

The new low power Bluetooth specification, or Bluetooth low energy as my old company calls is (http://www.csr.com/home.php), allows much of this to happen while dropping the link to save power. There are very few devices available just now which support low power Bluetooth at a hobby level. Low power Bluetooth is designed for sensor networks with a single battery giving years of power and then possibly the unit is disposed of when flat such as pedometers in shoes, pulse-rate monitors in watches etc all updating your mobile phone in a 'push' method with minimal signalling and thus power consumption.

Even though you say your idea is already out there, there is no reason not to make it a product, PICAXE is cheap and with the right features you can make it fit the need. I would also consider ways of linking the weight lifting, cycling distance or whatever into the PICAXE too using one of the inputs, you only need to send the total counts to the PC and do the number crunching there, you could hardcode each PICAXE with a station ID which is mapped on the PC as you might only see 20 reps for weight lifting but thousands [of revolutions] for cycling. Just an idea.
Sominthing to ponder there Gav !
 
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