Where's 6.9?

Edited post - confusion with downloads.

Looking now, the New Product Release forum page has the correct version. Either I was wong, or it has been changed.

The manual versions that came with my download of PE 6.2.7 seem to be 6.7 (without the 20X2 pinouts) rather than version 6.9.

Andrew

Manual 1, version 6.9 is included with Programming Editor version 5.2.7 download.

We will investigate the download links - what's the URL for 'New Product Releases' ?

See earlier posts - either I was wrong,or the download has changed. The link I talked about was the latest version list.

As said above, my PE version 5.2.7 has 6.7, not 6.9.

A

Hmm downloaded the new version and installed and have manual1 v6.8, manual2 v6.9, Manual3 v4.3

Are you accessing the manual from the default installed location or via a shortcut pointing to an older version?

Just a thought - does installing a new version of programming editor 'on top of' an older version replace the manual files with the new ones? If not, then I have found the problem.

Andrew

I uninstalled 5.2.7, re-installed 5.2.6 and got Manual 1 at 6.8 02/2009.

Installed 5.2.7 over the top and that took Manual 1 up to 6.9 07/2009.

Win Xp SP2. So no problem there.

Well this just reflects the issue repeatedly mentioned previously.
Technical claims a new download and instal over what is already there will automatically update the manuals.

It is clear that it does not.
Further there is still no readily available info on which are the current latest manual versions and separate downloads for them.

Now that there is a new forum topic which would appear to be designed for just this sort of info, can we please have latest manual version info and download links maintained there.

The main website and the links above mostly just open the files.
The all manuals section on the main website has 3 listings for manual1 which are all the same.
The AXE00x numbers to the left don't relate to the files to the right.

BCJKiwi said:

Well this just reflects the issue repeatedly mentioned previously. Technical claims a new download and instal over what is already there will automatically update the manuals.

It is clear that it does not.
Further there is still no readily available info on which are the current latest manual versions and separate downloads for them.

Click to expand...

The links Technical gave look correct to me, as labelled, and as clicked-upon The manuals there match those I get installed by Programming Editor 5.2.7...

http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13235

Manual 1 - 6.9 07/2009
Manual 2 - 6.9 06/2009
Manual 3 - 4.3 09/2008

As to installing 5.2.7 over an earlier version; that seems to have worked for me.

When I installed PE V5.2.7 on its release, the manual 1 was auto updated to V6.9.

In repeating what I have said in a post in an earlier thread,

- the new sticky post in the What New group links to the corect manuals
(http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/picaxe_manual1.pdf)

- access via the manuals link at the top of the forum pages gives V6.8
( http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/docs/datasheets/picaxe_manual1.pdf)

- the link from the Rev Eds website datasheets give V6.9
(http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/picaxe_manual1.pdf)

So seems only the link at the top of the forum pages is out of data - due to going to a differnent document at a different location

As stated;
The main website and the links above mostly just open the files.
The all manuals section on the main website has 3 listings for manual1 which are all the same.
The AXE00x numbers to the left don't relate to the files to the right.

see clip from the website. This is in the section 'All Picaxe Datasheets'

Clicking on a link and having the pdf open is NOT the same as having a link to a download.

So it would seem that the installer does not function properly.
Have already commented more than once that the installer, while it removes? or overwrites the old files, does not clean up the installed file list in add remove programs (winXP).

In the past the only way I was able to get clean installs was to uninstall and remove all links and remnants of PE from the machine before installing the new downloaded version. Technical has insisted that this was not necessary but it seems that it is as that it is necessary after all.

Well I've just uninstalled and reinstalled and still get manual1 v6.8, manual2 v6.9, manual3 v4.3. Bas .exe downloaded 3/9/2009 - has there been a 'silent update' of the manual? If so this is just a further example of why the updates and versions should be clearly notified as and when they occur.

BCJKiwi said:

As stated;
The main website and the links above mostly just open the files.
The all manuals section on the main website has 3 listings for manual1 which are all the same.
The AXE00x numbers to the left don't relate to the files to the right.

see clip from the website. This is in the section 'All Picaxe Datasheets'

Click to expand...

That's one issue which we have noted and will deal with, but any mis-labelling is secondary to reading, downloading or installing manuals.

BCJKiwi said:

Clicking on a link and having the pdf open is NOT the same as having a link to a download.

Click to expand...

Correct, assuming that is how your browser / PC is configured. PDF viwwers often integrate themselves into browser so clicking on a link opens the document, but there's usually a right click ( such as "Save Link As..." ) which allows the document to be downloaded and saved instead of opened.

BCJKiwi said:

So it would seem that the installer does not function properly.

Click to expand...

I'm no longer sure which or what "installer" we are talking about here. By "Installer" I mean BAS805.EXE which extracts the rest of itself to create the Programming Editor files on disk.

BCJKiwi said:

Have already commented more than once that the installer, while it removes? or overwrites the old files, does not clean up the installed file list in add remove programs (winXP).

In the past the only way I was able to get clean installs was to uninstall and remove all links and remnants of PE from the machine before installing the new downloaded version. Technical has insisted that this was not necessary but it seems that it is as that it is necessary after all.

Click to expand...

It should not be necessary, nor does it seem necessary for Technical, myself, nor westaust55 as described above. No one can guarantee how a particular PC installation will actually behave.

BCJKiwi said:

Well I've just uninstalled and reinstalled and still get manual1 v6.8, manual2 v6.9, manual3 v4.3. Bas .exe downloaded 3/9/2009 - has there been a 'silent update' of the manual? If so this is just a further example of why the updates and versions should be clearly notified as and when they occur.

Click to expand...

My BAS805.EXE is dated 2009-09-02 ( 2/9/2009 ) which is either earlier or the same depending on timezones and that included and installed Manual 1 version 6.9. When a new Programming Editor is released I download from the Rev-Ed site just to make sure I have exactly what we release to the public.

Well we are just in a circular discussion here.

Rev-Ed obviously thinks it has it all covered.

A number of loyal users have requested changes to version control, notification, information etc.

It would be good if Rev-Ed treated these requests as serious and assisted those loyal users by making this area work better for them rather than the 'we know best' attitude.

There is absolutely an issue withthe installer (by which I also mean bas05.exe - is there any other installer for PE?).

a. It does not clean up the add remove programs or the registry when a new version is installed over the old.
b. It does not manage the version control properly and hence does not (in this instance) overwrite manual1 v6.8 with v6.9.

I have again uninstalled PE. Checked the datasheet folder and found nothing had been removed.
The date on manual 1 was 31-03-09
deleted manual1
re-installed and now have v6.9.

So despite uninstalling everything (via ad/remove programs, and re-installing, v6.8 was not replaced as it should have been.

This is exactly the same issue originally reported by Andrew at the beginning of this thread.

I will let other points you raise go by even though I do not agree as it appears pointless to persist.

Something odd is occurring, I'm not getting the new version of manuals as suggested. I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 2 (and all the other updates it chooses).

I uninstalled 5.2.3 last night (using the control panels "programs and features") and installed 5.2.7

The manuals linked under all programs etc:-

Manual 1 - 6.7
Manual 2 - 6.7
Manual 3 - 4.3

If I install the folders disappears and when I re-install it's back at these versions. re-installing over the top has no difference.

best regards,
colin

This is a difficult one to resolve for everyone, but an understanding of why the issue occurs will help people. Like most companies, Revolution distribute a standard Windows Installer (MSI file) generated with the industry leader InstallShield/acresso software. We have no control over the way MSI actually operates.

At the date of MSI generation, the latest version manuals are always included.

However there are some MSI limitations here that are beyond our control
1) Some file types have embedded version control (exe dll etc). The MSI will look at the version and update it if out of date. This works very well.
2) Other files (e.g. pdf, like the manuals) do not have version control embedded - this is a limitation of the file type. The only way the MSI can tell if it is older or not is by looking at the file date. This system, by very definition, is not as reliable as 1.
3) The MSI uninstaller will ONLY work with files it installed. If in the interval you manually update the file (e.g. drop in a new version manual) the updated file will NOT be uninstalled, as the installer did not install that file. This is correct behaviour - after all you don't want, for instance, the uninstaller removing any .bas files or .pdf files that you have created!

Question:
A number of loyal users have requested changes to version control, notification, information etc.

Answer
There is a specific forum where new releases are announced and a sticky topic that has these version numbers.
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13235

Question:
It does not manage the version control properly and hence does not (in this instance) overwrite manual1 v6.8 with v6.9.

Answer:
PDFs do NOT have internal version control to be managed. The MSI installer will in most cases correctly update the file by use of the generated file date. This works perfectly on at least 8 test machines (all with different versions of Windows) we have here. However, unfortunately, this does not always work for everyone.

So if you are having problems updating the software, we recommend
1) uninstall the software
2) check that any dropped in files are manually deleted. The simple way to do this is to just delete any files in the installation folder.
3) do a new install.

Remember - if you have done a fresh install, not changed any file, then do an uninstall all installed files should be removed via the MSI process. Update any pdf file manually and it will always be left behind.

We will look to see if there is anything we can do to improve this.

Sorry but this does not cover the situation.

PE has ALWAYS left every previous version of the program in add remove programs and caused issues in all the time I have used PICAXE and on every PC I have PE installed PE on.
This behaviour only occurs with a tiny number of programs and have experienced many instals/updates of many programs in many PCs.
Have not manually installed (dropped in?) new versions of the Manual.

Please sort out the issues rather than assuming it is something the user has done. There are a large number of files in the datasheet folder. The naming conventions and wide range of dates make it impractical to delete all the files in the folder (and one should not have to) without losing something one would want to keep.

Another installer issue is that one is forced to download all the files for all languages, and, they all get installed as there is no option to select which files are wanted.

The sticky could be improved by adding the date the files were introduced.

I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this... I'm just getting confused and would like to understand what's occurring. Yes, I did follow some duff advice and copy some new manual to the program folder in the past, now it appear that I'm stuck with them.

If I un-install the folders are hidden [somewhere], where do they go that we can delete the "wrong" manuals?

If I delete them before un-installing then they'll re-appear as the wrong versions, similarly if I delete them and click on bas805.exe and select repair.



Can anyone give me some pointer as to what is occurring with installshield and vista home premium?

regards,
colin

BCJKiwi,

I can understand your frustrations, however it is certainly not occurring for all users.

Your problems do not occur on main my PC at home and late last night I updated PE on a second PC. This PC had PE V5.2.6 and manual 1 was at rev 6.8. I installed PE V5.2.7 and manual 1 was also updated to rev 6.9. All PC’s are running Win XP SP3.


maybe it is a Win Vista issue which is what Slurp indicates he has instaleld on his PC.

If changes are being considered, please also consider offering a lite version of the software and manuals Ones without the catalog and stuff might make life easier for us dial-up folks. Of course by the time this gets down the wire from me to you, maybe I'll have broadband too....naw

Currently running XP sp3 but has always been the case on multiple machines and earlier SPs.

Standard procedure for me from now on will be to;
1. install any 'additional' files that are not part of thestandard instal into a separate folder,
2. uninstall PE
3. Delete all the left over folders and files
4. instal new.

This is the only process that has worked for me 100% over all the time I've used PE.

Installing/upgrading software is a large part of my work and there are very few apps that exhibit these issues.

slurp said:

Yes, I did follow some duff advice and copy some new manual to the program folder in the past, now it appear that I'm stuck with them.

If I un-install the folders are hidden [somewhere], where do they go that we can delete the "wrong" manuals?

Click to expand...

If the folders / manuals are disappearing when you uninstall, they are almost certainly deleted. Unless Windows has taken it upon itself to copy those files to somewhere else; C:WINDOWS\System32\Dllcache, C:WINDOWS\$NTuninstall* or elsewhere. Vista and XP maintains shadow directories, restore points and other information with the aim of helping users avoid lost files and data and system corruption.

slurp said:

If I delete them before un-installing then they'll re-appear as the wrong versions, similarly if I delete them and click on bas805.exe and select repair.

Can anyone give me some pointer as to what is occurring with installshield and vista home premium?

Click to expand...

This possibly has the hallmarks of 'Windows File Protection' whereby Windows itself or some anti-virus or anti-malware application is detecting deleted files, assuming they should not have been, and automatically restoring them. I encountered that issue once on XP, a long time ago, but not since then. I believe this is called 'Windows Resource Protection' under Vista, but do not know enough about either to say this is the culprit. Windows XP was, I believe, only intended to protect Windows system files but I do know that it is not recommended to store any user files under the \Program Files or \Windows directory on Vista.

I've had relatively few problems with installing and uninstalling Programming Editor or adding ( and after ) new datasheets downloaded into the Programming Editor Editor on 98 and XP, and as Technical indicate, the install mechanism has been tested on a number of machines and a variety of operating systems. It is not however possible to test for all possible user configurations there may be.

I'd like to second BCJ's concern.

I recently took a look at my Windows XP Add/Remove Programs screen and found 7 versions of the Programming Editor listed. But there was not 7 versions stored on my hard drive.

This seems very sloppy for an installer program.

Myc

Thanks Hippy!

I'll have a look for those locations this evening and do a little googling on 'Windows File Protection' / 'Windows Resource Protection' and Vista. That gives me a better pointer....

regards,
colin

I can't follow all this very well, but I'll add my recent experience.

I had an issue that made me re-format my hard drive, and I had to re-install Windows XP Home Addition. I then updated to SP3 from the Microsoft website. I downloaded and installed free virus protection from AVG, then downloaded the newest version of the editor from the Picaxe website...5.2.7.
I don't know how to see what the version is, but here is a screen shot.

I did get the new manual from the top of the site here, so I'm good, but I thought it might help someone if I told my story.

PE filename

I'd appreciate it if possible that the download .exe file name reflect version rather than sticking with 'BAS805' - though I uderstand there may be some reason for sticking with this name... . I'm on dial-up and downloads take a while....

PE Updates

Rev Ed set up a new section for the purpose of advising new releases.

The programming Editor is covered in this trhead:
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13236

It is a bit like watch this space . . . . .



And for the latest manual revisions look at this thread:
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13235


The PE has the version number on the splash screen seen when the PE is first booted up.

All Rev Ed documentation has the revision and date in the footer on each page of the pdf files.

OK then, on a new install on a newly formatted hard drive, straight from the Picaxe website, I recently got version 6.2 of manuals 1 and 2 and version 4.2 of manual 3 from 2004. Not a big deal, now that I know where to get the new ones.

Just to add another experience. i have the PE installed on both a Win2K machine and an XP and everything worked perfect when i upgraded to the newest version, all the manuals were replaced with newer ones.

@ 212 : That doesn't make sense as the old versions of the datasheets are not included within the 5.2.7 BAS805 installer and that doesn't download anything from the internet.

@ julienE : That's the experience intended, and the experience most users seem to get. In some cases, old datasheets are not deleted, nor updated by a later install - See post #14.

Where there are problems, and the latest Programming Editor and datasheets have not installed, the following process should correct the situation -

Remove all copies of BAS805.EXE
Use Add/Remove Programs to remove all instances of Programming Editor
Delete the "X:\Program Files\Programming Editor" folder entirely
Empty the Recycle Bin of the above
Re-Boot
Check "X:\Program Files\Programming Editor" does not exist
Download latest copy of BAS805.EXE
Install BAS805.EXE

@212,
what version of the PE did you install?

I have just this week installed a new HDD in my PC.
Installed PE V5.2.7 from a BAS805 file I had previously downloaded and got PE V5.2.7 with manuals 1/2 at V6.9 and manual3 at V4.3

(Fun putting a new SATA-II HDD in place of a PATA HDD onto an 5yo Asus A7N8X-E mobo - but it all works).

I got version 5.2.7. It took days and days to get all my other stuff downloaded and updated on dial-up, so I don't remember exactly, but my Picaxe folder says Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:22:43 PM, so that's about the time I got it I guess.