OT: World's largest battery in Australia

Reloadron

Senior Member
The roughly football pitch-sized 100-megawatt battery is more than three times larger than the next largest site in Mira Loma, California.
The company says it draws on power delivered from a nearby windfarm and has the capacity to power 30,000 homes for up to an hour during blackouts.
Then following that one hour you get to sit in the dark and cold. Well unless you live in a warm climate. :)

Ron
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
I would love to hear comments from our down under friends about the following news:

http://www.dw.com/en/tesla-launches-worlds-biggest-battery-in-australia/a-41613121

I had read a Silicon Chip editorial page where it had been complained the SA's government had relied way too much on renewables which had failed on some of summer's hottest days.
As you can probably imagine, the subject has been a political football. The opinions of many organisations can be polarised. Personally, I think the move is probably viable and it is worth trying - Tesla is not likely to be gambling on failure.

The severe weather event that caused the 2016 network failure was not a common occurrence - several large steel transmission line pylons were blown down and, also, wind farm/s had to 'feather' their turbines due the risk of over-revving. Certainly, South Australia had (or still has) a lack of "rotating mass" in generators due to the high proportion of renewables being used.

The battery solution is a bold but calculated experiment that will probably lead to changes to the future directions of energy supply worldwide. To better utilise renewable energy, storage solutions need to be tested. Batteries are one method, reverse hydro is another (using surplus energy to pump water into hydro reservoirs). There are limited locations where reverse hydro could be cost effective in Australia, mainly near the far east coast, so all options need to be costed and tested. At the moment, the only other viable option is to keep burning fossil fuels as an energy source.

And, of course, accountants will tell us what is monetarily viable and what is not. So, the Tesla battery is an experiment and we need to wait to see the results.

Ron need not worry about keeping warm should he visit during the southern winter. The climate in most population centres in Australia is more like Texas or southern California: while energy demand for heating does increase in winter, energy demand peaks on the hottest days in summer. The sun is shining and solar energy comes to the fore. Edit: ...and the wind still blows, goom. Thankfully, just occasionally it blows too strongly.
 
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techElder

Well-known member
Tesla is not likely to be gambling on failure.
Huh? All Tesla does is gamble. Every project they're involved in is a high risk opportunity. The phrase "gambling on failure" doesn't make any sense. Gambling is gambling, and by definition the result is indeterminate. :D

In any case, Australia gets to decide on its own. I know that out in west Texas there are wind farms on every high spot. The last time I was out that way, most of the turbines were shuttered due to lack of customers ... not wind.
 

Reloadron

Senior Member
As you can probably imagine, the subject has been a political football. The opinions of many organisations can be polarised. Personally, I think the move is probably viable and it is worth trying - Tesla is not likely to be gambling on failure.

The severe weather event that caused the 2016 network failure was not a common occurrence - several large steel transmission line pylons were blown down and, also, wind farm/s had to 'feather' their turbines due the risk of over-revving. Certainly, South Australia had (or still has) a lack of "rotating mass" in generators due to the high proportion of renewables being used.

The battery solution is a bold but calculated experiment that will probably lead to changes to the future directions of energy supply worldwide. To better utilise renewable energy, storage solutions need to be tested. Batteries are one method, reverse hydro is another (using surplus energy to pump water into hydro reservoirs). There are limited locations where reverse hydro could be cost effective in Australia, mainly near the far east coast, so all options need to be costed and tested. At the moment, the only other viable option is to keep burning fossil fuels as an energy source.

And, of course, accountants will tell us what is monetarily viable and what is not. So, the Tesla battery is an experiment and we need to wait to see the results.

Ron need not worry about keeping warm should he visit during the southern winter. The climate in most population centres in Australia is more like Texas or southern California: while energy demand for heating does increase in winter, energy demand peaks on the hottest days in summer. The sun is shining and solar energy comes to the fore. Edit: ...and the wind still blows, goom. Thankfully, just occasionally it blows too strongly.
I have several good friends down under and had the pleasure of visiting during the early 80s. Loved both Australia and New Zealand. :)

When I look at power with a focus on power generation and distribution I look at cost. Currently here in Ohio, USA where I live there is a large move underway to place wind turbines out in Lake Erie, about 10 to 12 miles offshore. This presents some interesting challenges in a lake which freezes over. The bottom line is today I know how much I am paying per thousand watt hour, so what will I be paying in a year or two? When will there be a return on investment?

Ron
 

goom

Senior Member
My bad. I should not have made light of a bad situation caused by unusually severe winds.
I know little about wind turbine design, but would imagine that it is possible to build them with the ability to continue producing power in stronger winds than those which required the blades to be feathered during the 2016 crisis. Undoubtedly cost, efficiency and power output would all be factors when designing for maximum wind speed capability.

Energy storage is certainly a big issue with intermittent energy resources such as wind and solar. Batteries and reverse hydro have already been mentioned. Other possible strategies include:
Using surplus power to electrolyse water and produce hydrogen, then "burn" in fuel cells.
Pumped air storage in abandoned non-porous mines, but there are likely few suitable sites.
Heat molten salt to later power steam turbines.
 

marzan

Senior Member
I actually live in Adelaide. There is a fair bit of history that got them to the infrastructure they have put into place. Here goes.
ETSA (Electricity Trust of South Australia) was a state owned asset. As always happens, some bright spark decides the private sector could do the job better, so the Liberal Govt. sold their asset to private companies. These companies then culled half the work force to "cost cut" and improve productivity. Unfortunately these were mainly blue collar maintenance workers. they have then over the space of the last 25 years only used band aid solutions on the power network. Then in the last 5 years other things came into play. "inefficient" power plants, such as the big one in Port Augusta (country South Australia) were decommissioned with no new power producing plant to replace it, because we were all connected to the national grid. Unfortunately for South Australia we only had ONE interconnector to the national grid. As normally happens, something unforseen happened. The "perfect storm" (pun intended). We had a hot day with massive power consumption, and gale force winds that blew over about half a dozen of the interconnector towers. That plunged the stste into darkness for around 6 hours( Not me. Batteries and an inverter were a good insurance policy - Which pissed of my neighbors LOL)
Then the blame game started. Federal liberal government pointing the finger ant the labour State government and vice versa. Then the State government thought they would take Elon Musk up on his offer: Built in 100 days of signing or its free. Also a side bet of 50 MILLION was placed with an Aussie businessman that it couldn`t be done. Silly bet. he was able to start prepping before contract was signed, and I think it was done in 80 days. It was built near a wind farm to act as a buffer.
A lot has been said about it only being able to power 30,00 homes for an hour. There is a reason for that. They have 9 Diesel generators that can then kick in to get us through this summer. After that, they will be converted to gas generators.
So we had a sub standard privatised power network, with them whinging they cant fix the problems without price hikes (90% in the last five years) and yet we still had a blackout, because they never looked after the infrastructure or thought to spend the money on a second interconnector. The present labour government wanted to take some control back to prop up the network, which the Liberal government, if they get in in the next election, is already talking about selling!!
There is also talk of a solar thermal plant replacing the old power station at Port Augusta.
Better than a soap opera.....
Marz.826859827a044dac15f6ecf4e4eebc65.jpg
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marzan

Senior Member
I had read a Silicon Chip editorial page where it had been complained the SA's government had relied way too much on renewables which had failed on some of summer's hottest days.
Not true. It was a lack of infrastructure connecting us to the national power grid. The stupid Federal government trying to deflect the blame. See my full post for the details :)

Marz.
 

westaust55

Moderator
The potential root cause of the blackout in Sept 2016 was a parameter in the wind turbines that tripped them off line after 3 or 6 in other cases of lightnining strikes over a 2 minute period. Neither the wind farm operators or AEMO knew about the parameter at the time.
Even with several transmission towers collapsing, had the wind turbines not shut down South Aust would highly likely not have been plunged into darkness.
Some truths do not make for headlines.
 
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cravenhaven

Senior Member
And dont forget the standby gas powered plant that couldnt be started in less than a couple of days because of a lack of gas. Also the lack of response from the network operators when they were told to prepare for a severe weather event hours beforehand.

I thought there were 2 interconnector links to the national grid, but one had been down for many months due to maintenance.
 

marzan

Senior Member
I thought there were 2 interconnector links to the national grid, but one had been down for many months due to maintenance.
Technically there is, but again poor maintenance meant it was plagued with trouble. They were supposed to look into another link before Pt Pirie closed, but guess what..
 

Reloadron

Senior Member
Here in the US I see our power grid as one of the weakest parts of the infrastructure. It doesn't take much to send a few million people into the dark. Decades ago we were providing home health care to my mother-in-law. As her health slowly deteriorated more and more support which relied on power was showing up. A device with a 20 or 30 min battery backup is of little value when you lose power for a few days to a week. I bought a small 8 HP, gasoline fired generator capable of 4,000 watts continuous power and 5,000 watt surge. I set up a small pony station to connect. It got us through a few bad times but eventually during major renovations I upgraded.



Fired by natural gas at about 19 KW it auto starts and transfers supplying the whole house. While my mother-in-law passed away years ago I have never regretted the large generator. Lose power and within 10 seconds the generator is online and we have power to share with neighbors as well.

Ron
 

Reloadron

Senior Member
Hi Ron, how noisy is that Centurion? - looks good.
Actually it is not bad at all. It has always worked as required and sounds about like a well muffled Toro lawnmower. I got a good deal as it was on the floor and the new models had come out, the only difference was cosmetic as the new models have rounded corners. Cleveland, Ohio just had a major power failure on the west side and while it didn't effect us it's nice to know when it is 15 degrees F outside we are covered. I always disliked cold and dark. :) My neighbors tell me they seldom have even known it was running when it does its weekly exercise routine.

Ron
 
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