Can't figure out how to install AXE027 USB cable

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
How can a good company allow this to happen with their product?
Why must it be so tedious and take several confusing software steps to get downloads to their product?
A great many people use PICAXE chips and AXE027 without encountering any problems at all. That doesn't mean there won't be some problems and when there are we will do our best to help people resolve their issues.

It is unfortunate that cable drivers have to be installed but that is just the way it is with Windows. Installing the drivers should be no more tedious or confusing to installing any other USB drivers and for most people it proves not to be. Again, we will help as best we can when people do encounter problems installing the AXE027 drivers.

From your earlier post where you did successfully succeed in downloading to your PICAXE it appears that this is not a cable driver issue. It appears that the issue may have been from using a jack socket direct to breadboard. That you seem to be using breadboard only emerged late in the day and if this were known earlier we and other members may have been able to say that was possibly, even likely, the cause of the issues you are having.

Using an AXE029 should resolve any issues with using breadboard. It hasn't so we now need to move on and figure out why that is.

It could be as simple as having left the 22K/10K download interface in place which would be needed with a socket on a breadboard but is not needed when using the breadboard adapter. It could be that there is some wiring or configuration issue in connecting the adapter. It may turn out to be something else.

The best way to proceed is to understand exactly what you have, know how it's wired and methodically go through what is working and isn't. The more you can help others the more they will be able to help you. If you could provide photographs of how you have things connected and wired on the breadboard that will help.
 

4jaba6

New Member
hippy, manuka, inglewood and all,

I appreciate your encouragement; am less despondent and shall continue to work the problem.
Shall work with the AXE029 and probably order the part: CH340 rec. by manuka
 

jims

Senior Member
I recently fought a problem on a "breadboard" project. After about 2 days I discovered that there was an intermittent short between 2 rows on the breadboard. It took a lot of patience and measuring with my PC scope and meter to find it. I was very surprised to discover that the breadboard was bad. The board had an aluminum plate on the back which wasn't insulated from the metal strips...Probably and assembly error. May be worth spending some time there. JimS
 
Last edited:

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
hippy, manuka, inglewood and all,

I appreciate your encouragement; am less despondent and shall continue to work the problem.
One thing to always remember is that people do understand your frustrations, will have experienced it themselves at times, will be willing to help you work through to a resolution.

One thing this forum doesn't have is an "If you can't figure it out; that's your problem" culture. You would have to work hard to bring that about :)

Best thing to do is forget everything which has gone, walk away, take a deep breath, come back and start anew from where we now are.

The first thing to do is check the right COM port is selected, run a cable test just to confirm the AXE027 is working.

Then check the AXE029 adapter is in the right place on the breadboard, its link is in the right place, the right adapter pins connect to the right ones on the PICAXE, aren't crossed over.

Then try a download test, and with Hard Reset just in case it's still something in the last download causing an issue. Maybe swap the PICAXE.

It's not always easy to help from a distance, not half as easy as looking directly over your shoulder where it's easier to say "that's wrong" or see where an issue may be. A reasonable quality phone photo of what you have will go a long way to helping others say if it looks right or not. It's sometimes a grind to get to identifying what an issue is, and it will often seem such a small issue to have caused such frustration, but most times we'll get there soon enough.

It could be a breadboard issue and they can be difficult to spot or determine. I'm more inclined to think it's something less than that. Ruling out the more likely things before looking at more esoteric possibilities is usually the most effective approach.
 

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi,

....probably order the part: CH340 rec. by manuka
Yes, I have also used one (of several) of the CH340 "blue" USB-RS232 adapters for nearly all of my PICaxe programmimg for years. The CH340 is now used by many of the Chinese Arduino boards, so in general, drivers shouldn't be a problem. But PICaxe does have two special requirements: "Inverted" data polarity (relative to normal "TTL" signal levels) and support for the "Break" signal (a long period of active high to initiate the programming sequence).

So I was rather concerned that about a year ago, this thread suggested that something had "changed" with recent supplies of the CH340 adapters. :(

I don't know if that issue was ever resolved, so my recommendation is to persevere with what you have. There are a few "gotchas" with PICaxe programming, but we should be able to find which one has caught you.

Cheers, Alan.
 

slimplynth

Senior Member
Evenin' (may not be of any help)

My Axe027 is almost a decade old I think, still works - if my download circuit/larger circuit is fine.

Recently, I was messing around with a Sonoff unit, requiring use of a USB to Serial adapter.. bought a cheap one off Amazon, much to my annoyance as it must have a fake Prolific chipset and apparently they updated the drivers to block them.. anyway following use of this adapter I was further infuriated because my AXE027 then suspiciously stopped working.. in fact plugging it in would occasionally cause my mouse cursor to move, click.. was very weird.. the kind of 'have I been hacked weird'.. The only fix I could find was changing a registry setting that stops windows assigning com ports automatically (re. serial mouse).. i thought it was going to drive me mad.. i think the below link was the answer I needed.. setting it to manual control only.. don't lose hope.. it makes the blue download progress bar all the more of a joy to see..

Edit: Also, have you tried downloading a program with Linux/Axepad? If not then it's worth a shot? I'm often frustrated by Windows so try a similar fix in Linux and vice versa.. Partly what I was intending to explain above, you may see the symptoms in the Picaxe but the root cause could be something to do with windows and or another device you've used in the past...

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9226082/device-misdetected-as-serial-mouse
 
Last edited:

4jaba6

New Member
hippy and all whom have helped and/or tried,

UPDATE:

Today I spent quite a bit of time with suggestions and attempting to get the AXE029 Adaptor to download with out any good results.
I decided to build a 3rd bread board and not use the AXE029.
I used my original cable with one of the new stereo heads.
The head seemed to fit much snugger. I checked the head against my old original stereo head.
The new head appeared to have an ever so slightly longer and wider middle pin.
Could this be possible? Shall attempt to do some very small measurement and compare tomorrow,
unless some one knows this is the case or not.
Also my old cable has a cut-out of the rubber to make it flat at the stereo end so fits against the board better.
I can not remember if I cut it flat or or if years ago it came that way?
The new cable did not come that way, i. e. the rubber is round near the stereo end.
I suppose I shall get a very sharp bard-parker and shave the rubber off my new cable to also make it flatter
and lay down on the board more snug.

In any event, due to the increased snugness...--------->>>HAD SEVERAL SUCCESSFUL DOWNLOADS !!!! OOHHHRAH
Hoping this is the solution to the very erratic 2 month history....however am still gun shy and expect it not to work tomorrow!
If still ok tomorrow on the new breadboard, shall also test new Adaptor and old cable on my other 3 breadboards.

Thanks to all for sticking with me on this.
Maybe me going cathartic yesterday was the Karma needed ( although such behavior should promote not so good Karma!? )?
:eek:
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
The new head appeared to have an ever so slightly longer and wider middle pin. Could this be possible?
It is possible. We buy the parts in rather than manufacture them ourselves and may buy via distributors rather than direct from the manufacturer. It could be a different manufacturer's part, or just from a different production line. The manufacturer may buy pre-stamped pins and what they get may vary slightly.

Possibly just a small change in size or length could have a big effect on snugness, more if it's longer, wider, thicker - which sounds like it should be a slogan for a Components Olympics :)

In any event, due to the increased snugness...--------->>>HAD SEVERAL SUCCESSFUL DOWNLOADS !!!! OOHHHRAH
That is good news.
 

4jaba6

New Member
Got one of the other 2 breadboards to download ( snug fit with socket )but not the other breadboard( not so snug ).
The 2 breadboards are from different manufacturers.
The problem is diagnosed finally but not entirely solved.
Snugness varies on different breadboards and stereo sockets.
When finding the right combination, downloads work.
Then there is the whole issue regarding having to shave rubber off stereo end of cable.
Would like to take the time to pursue all these hardware connection issues but shall not.
Now that I have some boards, some stereo sockets and a cable that works, would rather move on and work on Picaxe projects.
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
The loopback test for the cable (Any cable AXE026, AXE027, generic FTDI, PL2032 or CH340) should prove if there is a bad connection in the cable. Details for testing the COM port and cable can be found under "Editor Options", COM Port. If the loopback test proves to be intermittent, just cut the 3.5mm plug off and replace it with an aftermarket one.

I would not use a 3.5mm stereo socket on any breadboard without extending the pins as shown I my earlier post: the native socket pins are just too short. Having dodgy connections for your downloads detracts too much from the fun of programming your PICAXE and making your unique creation.
 

manuka

Senior Member
FWIW- there is really no point in using a stereo socket & adapter if PICAXE programming on a breadboard. A DIY 3 header pin plug is cheap, lucid, simple, reliable & it occupies less layout space. Additionally the stereo connector is not confused as being earphone friendly & plugged into a music source or smartphone...
Stan. (16th year involved with PICAXEs)
 

premelec

Senior Member
And supporting manuka's view - I made a stereo socket to 3 pin socket adapter so I could use my stereo plug unit with 3 pin boards... only concern being getting the symmetric 3 pin socket right way around... ;-0
 

erco

Senior Member
+1 to the last 2 comments. I've been using nothing but 3-pin headers for years with perfect results. Here's a neat & cheap little USB adapter I made to plug into a breadboard. It's polarized to only plug in the correct way, but per premelec's comment below, no magic smoke gets released if you reverse it.

Edit: No magic smoke released if you reverse it is true with my design because the center pin is ground. I can't comment whether damage may result from a different layout where the SERIN or SEROUT lines may get grounded. Presumably not, since the stock stereo jack could cause random shorts and connections if it is connected/disconnected while serial data is flowing.

 
Last edited:

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
The problem is diagnosed finally but not entirely solved.
The problem is that jack sockets are not designed to work with breadboards.

You are lucky to find ones which do. Even when they work they may not be reliable, may stop working, or only intermittently work, as any contact with the breadboard will usually be marginal.

The solution is to not expect jack sockets to work with breadboards, don't plug jack sockets directly into breadboards. Instead use jack sockets in a way they can be made to work with breadboards; extending their pins, adding flying wires, or using jack socket breakout boards such as the AXE029.
 

4jaba6

New Member
hippy and all whom have assisted me with excellent suggestions to solve this issue ( including the latest technical suggestions on page 6 of this thread ),

This is not meant to disparage Picaxe but to offer a friendly suggestion on how to help their customers and their business.
There needs to be a hardware product for easy downloads.
No extra parts and components to purchase; no soldering...just buy the microcontroller, cable and stereo socket and go download.
I had to purchase a cable and shave off the rubber on the stereo socket end to make the flat so it fits against the breadboard
( and this is marginal due to closeness of metal under the rubber ).
In addition I have to order a breadboard that is hopefully compatible with the stereo socket and even then, it may not work due to possible inconsistency's of stereo sockets and breadboards.
The stereo sockets from Picaxe seem to be best ( but marginal ) and breadboards from Sparkfun seem to be most compatible ( again, marginal ).
The stereo sockets I ordered originally from Picaxe 4 years ago are not consistent with the new ones in pin length thickness ect., but new ones have best chance of working....so this is good.
Therefore all somewhat of a crap shoot.
I could order the AXE029 Adaptors but that involves soldering.

In summary: seems can get to work if I order the stereo socket, download cable ( and shave rubber on stereo end flat ) from Picaxe and breadboard from Sparkfun.

The whole download hardware system needs to be simple and easy.
Maybe it is; what am I missing?

Perhaps Picaxe could contract a manufacturer to develop the "perfect" stereo socket.
The company could make alot of $$$$$ just on it's slogan alone...."longer, wider, thicker" ( as suggested by hippy ) !
 

techElder

Well-known member
Therefore all somewhat of a crap shoot.
4jaba6, there are so many more challenging problems to solve once you get this problem solved that this problem will seem so trivial to you then.

PICAXE for me gets me right down there to the hardware. I make things that I can't waste kilobytes on standard libraries or cubic inches on "shields" and such. The programming of the PICAXE gets me down into the "weeds" of the hardware where I can use my technical skills.

As far as I'm concerned, there aren't any "canned" solutions. Every project is a new one, with new solutions to peripherals, pins and programs.

Everyone has to decide whether they are programmers only or get thrilled at the chance to combine all of their skills in one project.

Until you get up to speed with the PICAXE, you should probably reserve judgement on the company itself.
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
There needs to be a hardware product for easy downloads.
No extra parts and components to purchase; no soldering...just buy the microcontroller, cable and stereo socket and go download.
You are pretty much asking for the impossible unless we manufactured our own jack sockets which worked on breadboard or got some manufacturer to make them for us, but I doubt you would want to pay what the cost of those jack sockets would be.

It wouldn't likely be a viable business proposition for us to do either.

We recognise the problem that standard jack sockets are not compatible with breadboard; one of the reasons we developed the AXE029. But, yes, that requires soldering.

If you want a completely solderless solution the best option is one of our pre-built project boards. Perhaps the best of which is the AXE091 which includes a breadboard -

http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/Starter-Packs/PICAXE-Development-Starter-Pack
 

4jaba6

New Member
hippy,

Thanks for link to project board.

Texas....,

My right to reserve judgement on the company; also how can you judge my being up to speed? In 2015 I had several great projects that worked because would download then! My suggestion was to help company and customers.
Having said that, I have spent 2 months attempting to get downloads to work.

If someone had told me that download cable, stereo socket and breadboards could be extremely incompatible, then life would have been much easier!
The company should make customers buying the AXE027 very aware of hardware difficulties when downloading to breadboards before and/or when purchase is made.
 

inglewoodpete

Senior Member
The company should make customers buying the AXE027 very aware of hardware difficulties when downloading to breadboards before and/or when purchase is made.
I think that the "Breadboard Adapter" says it all. I don't believe Rev-Ed are using the AXE029 as a superfluous money-spinner. On its own, the bare 3.5mm socket and the breadboard are unsuited, regardless of whether a PICAXE is involved.

Having said that, I do not have an AXE029 Breadboard Adapter. I modified a 3.5mm socket as described here because the pins were clearly not long enough for any of my breadboards.
 

techElder

Well-known member
... If someone had told me that download cable, stereo socket and breadboards could be extremely incompatible, then life would have been much easier!...
:D Come on, you're better than that. That argument is akin to someone stepping outside wearing a fine suit and suddenly discovering that its cold and raining, "Someone should have told me it was going to rain!" :D

No one is "judging" you. We've all had our experience with that connector, and a bunch of us don't use it without some adaptation. Now you know, so get ready for the next person that posts here about it and explain your experience with it. :D
 

4jaba6

New Member
Tex,

I do not want this to degenerate into a spitting contest but your personal comments have led to that...ex. "come on you can do better than that", "until you get up to speed on the Picaxe, you should probably reserve judgement on the company" ect. BTW, what the H.... does "no one is "judging" you" have to do with anything? This is supposed to be a technical forum for members hoping to help out other members!
Are we judging each other in our discourse?

Your analogy makes no sense!
I have purchased several different microcontroller's over the years as well as various other items of technical hardware.
Never have I had to purchase other parts or modify ( ex, solder or shave a cable ect. ) the item or the parts purchased to get to work that I was not made aware of by company before the purchase!
If an item to purchase had something "quirky to get it to work, then this was presented to customer up front with detailed documentation on how to do it before buying and also came with the hardware.
As previously stated...my suggestions and concerns are meant to help the company and its customers.

I shall ignore any future personal comments by you, esp. because it does nothing to add to value of forum.

I really like the Picaxe products even with all the past travails in getting the 20M2 to download.
Now that I know which sites to purchase the additional parts and how to modify, am looking forward to moving on with projects.
 

newplumber

Senior Member
@ 4jaba6 I think you misinterpret Texasclod ..He is trying to help ...with no spitting intended
we are all good people on this forum with no intention of pressing anyone down
now back to the cable that goes berserk ...
your friend
 

4jaba6

New Member
newplumber,

Thank you for the kind words.

There has been an amazing amount of goodwill, assistance, suggestions from forum members attempting to help.
I felt that I had to respond to this member when he offered nothing of substance but raised personal issues about my pursuit of a solution. Making statements like " me being better than that" or "me getting up
to speed on the Picaxe" and "no one judging me" ect. were all irrelevant to solving the issues.

I agree; "now back to the cable that goes berserk ..."
( now, not so berserk...shaving the cable, purchasing the Sparkfun breadboard and the new stereo socket from Picaxe has enabled me to now download )
Thanks again to all :eek:
 

newplumber

Senior Member
misinterpret?
I don't even know what it means so I googled it ....still get interpreted confused :) ..but
all we see is black an white in here ...so some one saying something one way can be mislead
into another way ....I do it all the time ....but I always keep in the back of my mind
that no matter what some is saying in this forum ....is almost always trying to help and thats priceless

( now, not so berserk...shaving the cable, purchasing the Sparkfun breadboard and the new stereo socket from Picaxe has enabled me to now download )
Thats good ..everyone loves to see progress.
FWIW I guess i am lucky so far that when I order a cable...IC...etc...I order a few of them
unless its something over $100 a piece
but it saved me a ton of time.
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
now, not so berserk...shaving the cable, purchasing the Sparkfun breadboard and the new stereo socket from Picaxe has enabled me to now download
The only thing I would caution is that this week's breadboard, this week's jack socket, may not be the same as next week's.

All dimensions are subject to some variance and you were pretty lucky to find a combination which worked. What people may supply one week may not be same as they do the next. Parts can also wear and problems may arise when they do.
 

erco

Senior Member
@ 4jaba6 I think you misinterpret Texasclod ..He is trying to help ...with no spitting intended
we are all good people on this forum with no intention of pressing anyone down
now back to the cable that goes berserk ...
your friend
+1, Tex is a knowledgeable gentleman and a most helpful forumista. I have found him and everyone in this forum to be most encouraging in all things. It is easy to miss some of the subtleties in written text though. Too bad we can't blame it on "across the pond" language variations, because we're all Yanks. :)
 

4jaba6

New Member
hippy and all,

I was ready to move on to my projects but the post tweaked my interest in following up on this subject.
hippy has indicated how inconsistent my solution may be.
I won't post my method again because already done a couple times.

Based on the possibility of my way not working in future, am requesting comments on:

"How to download to a Picaxe microcontroller( 20M2 in my case) on a BREADBOARD using the AXE027 Cable".

I believe it would be of value to poll the contributors on this forum for their solutions.
Some of the messages ( ex. newplumber and erco recently ) relate about the willingness of members to assist.
I totally agree and hope this poll request is of enough interest for contributions.
Many have posted their helpful suggestions/methods already, therefore they may not want to post again
( ex. hippy, Inglewoodpete, erco, premelec, manuka and many others ).
Some of these messages did not involve breadboards, so they may want to post again regarding a breadboard.

Your comments will be of value to me and hopefully to many others, especially people in future that having trouble
getting download to breadboard.

Thanks!
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
"How to download to a Picaxe microcontroller( 20M2 in my case) on a BREADBOARD using the AXE027 Cable".
Our recommended way would be to use the AXE029 Breadboard Cable Adapter.

Other alternatives are -

Extend the legs of the jack socket with wires and plug into breadboard.

Extend the legs of the jack socket with longer flying wires whose bare ends can be pushed into the breadboard socket.

Find an in-line stereo extension lead. Cut the cable, expose the wires, bare the wire ends and push those into the breadboard. Be aware that some extension leads use ultra-fine wires which are difficult to use, and the shield may present issues as well. This is notionally the only 'no soldering required' option but the bare wires may need to be tinned to stop them 'fraying' with use. The metal used for the wire in the extension lead may not be copper, may not be easy to solder.

Actually, croc-clip to flying wires is another 'no soldering' option but would not be a recommended permanent solution.

Also for flying wires, but rather than bare ends, take those to a three way header socket which can mate with header pins inserted into the breadboard. Ideally use a keyed socket and pin connector, or a five pin connection which allows connection reversal.

You could also build your own AXE029 adapter on veroboard, with header pins like the AXE029, or flying wires. If fitted with screw terminals it can be used with flying wires or wires to a header socket.

There are more options but they are more esoteric.
 

premelec

Senior Member
Have an AXE029 AND AXE027 combination for slightly higher price with it spelled out what this is for. Or jack socket to 3pin female with clear instruction sheet without resistors... [what I use mostly with old serial cable...] - it's annoying to spend time figurimg out these basics which is partially why people like a USB to USB setup... Once working it's great!
 

manuka

Senior Member
FWIW herewith a couple of programming cable related emails from very long term NZ PICAXE supporters. The first is now an e-supplier -
PL2032 and PL2303 cables with the Prolific driver chip sets used to be the bee’s knees but the manufacturer realised that they were being counterfeit and stopped producing them and no more support.

Soo.. People have issues now. I’ve had a lot of fallout from them, so I refuse to stock them any longer.

I got a 4 pin cable manufactured specifically for PICAXE/Breadboard use. Uses an FT232RL chipset which is universal and plug and play with no drivers needed as windows (And Mac?) automatically pick them up. Works a treat. I’m selling them for NZ$20inc GST (~US$13) each. Still cheaper than AXE027. Refer http://www.phoenix-tech.co.nz/nz-en/index.php/shop/development-tools/usb-to-serial/ft232rl-usb-to-dupont-cable-4pin-detail
And this from a NZ e-educator (with decades of "hands on" STEM experience) praising such 4 wire cables-
Alternative leads are absolutely fine if you find something that 'works' for what people need
BUT Huge fragmentation and minefields when something works one day and not the next etc...

The biggest mistake with picaxe was the overpriced programming lead...
Prob reason it is not taken up more.
The diversity of work arounds, penny pinching and confusion has been Very bad for the PICAXE concept.
I have seen whole schools walk from picaxe / even whole electronics / tech programs turned into train wrecks and dropped / lost forever because of this (Been there putting out the flames.... )
I would rather pay a bit more for a stable product
QUALITY is what we want.

The FTDI is the only way to go for completely deep techy data logging and transfer.
The best an latest things like scratch portal (could be their / rev ed savior)
Some of these look for and will ONLY work with genuine FTDI this chip set.

The 4 pin ideas keep rolling out....
- Batteryless projects / programming / labs (just breadboard and lead)
- Super Cap robots
- Charge while you program
My 2014 vintage chopped breadboard LiFePO4 powered 433 MHz beacon is a tad tight for such 4 wire treatment ! Of course it's fair to say that the trend increasingly is to interface wirelessly - BT/WiFi etc - much as in the style of the BBC micro.Bit. Stan.
 

Attachments

Top