Silent Install AXE027 Driver

Gazza99

New Member
Hi All,

I've been tasked with deploying Picaxe and the AXE027 driver to over 50 laptops.
Deploying Picaxe silently via SCCM is no issue. However i am yet to find a way to install the AXE027 driver silently.

I have read through many threads here and on other sites however am yet to find a solution.

On my test computer, I have got as far as installing the driver via the command line using pnputil.
This makes the driver available to windows, however when i plug in the cable the drivers do not install automatically like required.
I have to manually go through the update driver wizard which is not viable to do on all usb ports on all machines.

Am i missing something here?
Is this not a certified pnp driver? or perhaps not WHQL Certified which is why its not auto installing?

I was wondering if it was not auto installing the driver even though windows has the driver possibly due to WHQL Certification because when the driver is installed manually i get the error attached saying compatibility cannot be verified.

Have tried this on numerous I3 test machines running windows 8.1 & Win 10.
Oh, and the axe027_installer.exe installer seems to do nothing for me either.

Any ideas muchly appreciated :)
 

Attachments

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
Due to the fact that Windows allocates a different virtual COM port to each physical USB port socket you cannot 'mass install' the driver over a network as you can with some generic drivers - it needs to be done individually on each machine with the physical cable actually inserted into the USB socket that you want to use (we recommend you use the same socket on each computer) . This is a Windows 'feature' rather than an issue with the driver itself and signing makes no difference to this hardware requirement (ignore the unsigned warning). You do not need to install the driver files separately if you have already installed PE6 as the driver files are also included as part of the MSI distribution for PE6. However you do need to do the legwork of physically inserting the cable into each and every computer and pointing the hardware wizard to that driver folder. It is a one off process where Windows can then identify the USB port position/id and allocate it a virtual COM port.
 

Gazza99

New Member
I understand that the virtual COM allocation cannot be universal and fully installed on all clients for that reason, That's fine.
But i do not see why the Driver does not pnp/auto install when the USB cable is connected.

I have 50+ laptops that clients use under a restricted account where they cannot manually install drivers.
Having to manually go around and plug the cable into every USB port (The clients always change, i can't constantly specify a specific port to use) on all 50+ laptops and manually install the driver.
So that's 150 times, not to mention the possibility of further pushing this out to many more.

This day and age, i think having to do this manually is ridiculous.
Windows has had the ability to Auto install drivers since Windows 7.

I appreciate the response, however there's no doubt the issue here is the driver itself being badly developed/ outdated.

Do you know if there are any plans for a refresh in the future?
I'm assuming not, but doesn't hurt to ask.
 

premelec

Senior Member
Not sure of your problem but I'll mention that I started with RS232 port and still use a simulated RS232 port using a cheap USB to RS232 plug in which uses a CH340 chip - works fine on Win7 and on XP - have never had an AXE027 which seems to be a problematic install at times.
 

oracacle

Senior Member
The problem is remote installing of the driver. the AXE027 from what I understand is a USB to serial such as the CH340 in a proprietary package . but windows being windows assigns that to a given USB port when its plugged in instead of general driver for all the USB ports meaning it has to be plugged into each USB port and then installed forcing an admin level installation on each machine for each USB port for every laptop. All this means that the driver can not be installed over the network without the laptop user knowing about it, the user can not install it due to not having admin rights.

But all this does beg the question that, if the users are unable to use a single USB port for this cable, what the hell is stopping them plugging the stereo end into the audio jack, or even one end into the audio and the USB into a USB port. it maybe suggested that the people using it are able to use simple instructions and can adhere to using a single USB port for this application.
 

srnet

Senior Member
I appreciate the response, however there's no doubt the issue here is the driver itself being badly developed/ outdated.
I asked the guy in work about this, he looks after our desktop PCs and laptops, there are about 8,000+ of them, I am part of the team that look after the 600+ servers.

The problem with needing to be administrator to install that type of driver, was as expected really, we get around it by putting the (new) desktops in a safe staging area where the user has temporary admin rights for such driver installs. Or they are installed as part of the image. There are apparently other work arounds, but its really a desktop management issue.

So maybe an 'updated' driver is not the solution.
 

Technical

Technical Support
Staff member
I have 50+ laptops that clients use under a restricted account where they cannot manually install drivers.
As already stated, this is a Windows issued directly related to the way Windows maps Virtual COM ports. The way other drivers behave is not related to the way drivers for virtual COM ports behave - they are quite unique under the Windows operating system.

The way Windows handles these virtual ports (unique COM port allocated per USB port) is actually sensible and for a reason, as it means you could have 2 cables setup on two different usb ports and they would always behave as COM5 and COM6 consistently, regardless of which is inserted first. It would be very confusing if the virtual ports did not behave in this way.

It is a local machine hardware setting per machine, so the login should be as administrator when installing the driver, it won't install as a restricted user as it is regarded under Windows as a hardware change.
Once the one off installation has been finished it will work for any user login.
 

SteveDee

Senior Member
Picaxe software deployment over a Windows network is a big problem, which you can only appreciate if you have been in that position.

In an organisation like a school, you may have to remotely "blow-away" a desktop image on selected machines several times a year to correct issues in unrelated applications. So any manual intervention that is required (after pushing out a new image) to get individual packages running properly, for both teacher and pupil accounts, is a real pain.

Unfortunately this makes Picaxe an unattractive option for both teachers and support staff, often resulting in Picaxe being quietly dropped by schools.
 

tmfkam

Senior Member
The models of "PicoScope" that we had at College suffered from the same annoyance, every time they were plugged into a different USB port, we needed an appointment with I.T. to install the drivers, which took a number of weeks! Even plugging it into every port while the I.T. operator was finally at the PC didn't work, as updates to the PC seemed to override this, and next time, we'd be back where we started. In the end, for class demo's I'd have to take an old laptop that would connect to the overhead projector and that I had admin rights on.

Things like this are a pain, but not limited to PicAxe by any stretch.
 

darb1972

Senior Member
I used to get port allocation issues and even some download issues but since moving to a new Laptop with Windows 10 along with the PE6 it all seems to work flawlessly, everytime. That's still using the same AXE27 and the same driver. No complaints here.
 

Gazza99

New Member
But all this does beg the question that, if the users are unable to use a single USB port for this cable, what the hell is stopping them plugging the stereo end into the audio jack, or even one end into the audio and the USB into a USB port. it maybe suggested that the people using it are able to use simple instructions and can adhere to using a single USB port for this application.
Generally I'm required to make everything as simple as possible as to lower the possibility of anything going wrong requiring IT support.
So yes, specifying a specific USB port may sound simple enough to some, but to others this is just another Variable to go wrong.
However i did see the 3.5mm cable and think the same thing thou... :confused:

Picaxe software deployment over a Windows network is a big problem, which you can only appreciate if you have been in that position.
In an organisation like a school, you may have to remotely "blow-away" a desktop image on selected machines several times a year to correct issues in unrelated applications. So any manual intervention that is required (after pushing out a new image) to get individual packages running properly, for both teacher and pupil accounts, is a real pain.
Unfortunately this makes Picaxe an unattractive option for both teachers and support staff, often resulting in Picaxe being quietly dropped by schools.
This is my main concern. We do image these a few times a year, so its going to be a constant issue.
As these resources are used constantly, its hard enough to get the time to image them let alone make the time to manually install drivers.


I think my only option is to manually install to the 1 port for the time being, and just see how it plays out in the classroom environment.
Thanks for the input everyone :)
 

SteveDee

Senior Member
...I think my only option is to manually install to the 1 port for the time being, and just see how it plays out in the classroom environment...
Classroom computer installations vary quite a bit. But if you need to pre-configure a certain USB socket, you might consider connecting an extender cable/socket to a rear USB socket and anchor it somewhere on the desk to make things easier for your students.

We were re-imaging computers via MDT (Microsoft Deployment). The last problem we had before I retired early 2016 was that a teacher with Staff account permissions had to log in and run each newly installed/imaged system once, otherwise students (with Pupil accounts) could not run the system (e.g. I don't think some of the features of the editor would work). I'm pretty sure the school dropped Picaxe for this academic year.

Considering that Picaxe is primarily for education, and education establishments typically have hundreds of networked computers, its clear that Rev Ed needs to come up with either comprehensive documentation or a system that overcomes these problems. By comprehensive documentation I mean an explanation of how to get around these installation and maintenance issues for a range of networking scenarios.
 

srnet

Senior Member
its clear that Rev Ed needs to come up with either comprehensive documentation or a system that overcomes these problems. By comprehensive documentation I mean an explanation of how to get around these installation and maintenance issues for a range of networking scenarios.
So do you know of a simple way around the problem of needing to be at Administrator level to install the COM port drivers ?
 

SteveDee

Senior Member
So do you know of a simple way around the problem of needing to be at Administrator level to install the COM port drivers ?
I don't have generic solutions, but here are a few comments.

As already mentioned, if you maintain large networks you need to be able to install remotely, often to a large group of computers. I am familiar with 2 different approaches;

1. Cloning; the excellent free & open source imaging software called "Fog" (https://wiki.fogproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Introduction#What_is_FOG) basically allows you to configure a sample Windows computer, and then use the image from this to re-image large groups of target computers. Each target will have all the functionality of the original sample. You would normally create several different master images to chose from (e.g. Science, Geography, Computer Science, Teachers desk & so on). You will include all graphics drivers, network drivers, etc required for each type of Windows computer that you use, and Fog takes care of selecting and installing the correct one. If the Picaxe cable driver was installed on the master sample machine (i.e. with the cable plugged in), it should be ready to run on all "Fogged" machines.

2. Microsoft deployment; The MDT system (once properly setup and configured) will contain a library of installers for your OS variants, applications and drivers. You select the OS & apps needed for a group of machines and MDT proceeds to install them. You can also MDT individual applications, files, registry settings & so on without the need for a complete re-image of the computer. There are lots of install/config/scripting options which can take a while for you to get your head around. As I remember it, our friendly Microsoft consultant was able to include the Picaxe driver with an MDT script/config. Although installing the Picaxe driver this way resulted in an MDT error message, the driver worked fine. But as mentioned in my last post, the Picaxe editor needed to be started once by a member of the Staff group before full functionality was available to students. I was pretty sure this was due to something like a path or setting being established either in the Registry or some other config file. But as Picaxe was the very least of our problems, I didn't get enough time to track it down.

As regards to various comments about running Windows systems "as administrator", I just want to make the obvious point that there are more alternatives than simply being either Administrator or User on a Windows system. For example, I had to sort out a few permissions issues with some truly dreadful machine drivers (notably laser cutters and other ancient engraving machines). In some cases this involved adding Students to the Local Administrator group and allowing them to write files to a limited number of directories on the C drive. This does not imply that Students could do everything that an Admin could, or even that they have general access to the C drive. You just have to close & lock lots of doors, and only open the minimum necessary to maintain a "safe" system.

So if you are suffering with the Picaxe cable being plugged into the "wrong" USB port, I suggest you study the mysteries of Windows Group Policies, permissions & all that jazz.

And finally, if you are part of the IT team for a school, college or Uni, I suggest you join the Edugeek forum: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/
...you may find others have had the same problems as you, and possibly found a work-around.
 
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