Has anyone had experience of this CNC engraver/drill/mill

ZOR

Senior Member
Still looking at milling or drilling PCB, and came accross this.

One picture looks like rust on one guide bar. Just wondered how easy it would be to make a Picaxe controlled PCB drill.

http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_356128.html

CURRENT EDIT: Anybody buying this product should know there are no instructions in English only pictures on internet. It has parts missing, ie screws, nuts. The slide bars are undesize in length. Many burrs on metalwork, holes wrong size, lead screws pitch too much backlash.

It was reasonable value for parts at time but now is more expensive, and is really a basic kit with many features that are just get by for now.

I found Gearbest very poor in after sales backup. If you want to return item back YOU PAY shipping. So just be aware
 
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Pongo

Senior Member
Did you read the answered questions?

By samad Jun-17/2016 01:06:50
Question:
Hi Can I make pcb using this engraver?
Reply:
Hello samad,
Thanks for your inquiry. No, you can't. Have a nice day.
...and there are more with the same answer.

$200 shipped to the U.S. and it's all metal, interesting but I don't know what I would use it for LOL
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Hi Pongo, thanks, yes I did read the questions but as it had X/Y/Zen movements, would need engraver tool to be replaced with a drill, that it would work. Just wondered how near it was to being useable, also price includes all motors etc seems cheap. Just wondered if anyone on the forum had gone down that road.
 

Circuit

Senior Member
There is a difference between "make a PCB" and "drill a PCB". Zor is asking if this can be made into a "PICAXE-controlled PCB drill". In principle, this looks possible. The machine, as illustrated, offers x,y and z movement controlled by simple stepper motors and with helical screw drive; these features would suggest that this would work. The main challenge would be in writing the software and I suspect that the supplier's negative answer in the questions list is related primarily to that aspect.

The product description as "CNC Laser Engraver Printer machine" does obviously raise some questions as to what would actually be delivered.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks circuit. I know the item does not include the laser device.
I think you could be right, although it looks a good package it may be far too complex/difficult to write software between what is produced from Diptrace etc / Picaxe / Unit. Will wait and see if anyone else can give me more inspiration and convince me it's more simpler than it looks.
 

SAborn

Senior Member
Any CNC machine should be able to work with Mach3, which is free up to 400 lines of code.

Most PCB programs will export a DXF file and all you need is some software that will import a DXF file and export it as a G-code file, than Mach3 will run the G-code and drill your board.

You will need to setup Mach3 to drive your board/motors and calibrate it to be correct, although you will find there is lots of help/instructions on the net to assist you.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

That's the cheapest I've seen a cnc drill/ engraver yet. Like Circuit , I see no reason it couldn't be used to drill pc boards. Whether it would be stiff enough to do the isolation milling for the traces is unknown.
I believe the machine uses the Arduino GRBL software and shield. This ebay engraver looks like the same one and has more pictures showing the electronics more clearly.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T8-DIY-CNC-Laser-Engraver-Printer-Machine-US-PLUG-SILVER-/172181946533?hash=item2816d800a5:g:KEwAAOSwaZdXIcZm

It appears to be this type of setup.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNO-CNC-SHIELD-BRD-V3-4PCS-DRV8825-DRIVER-with-HT-SINKS-GRBL-DIY-3D-printer-/322170284033?hash=item4b02d86801:g:B2gAAOSwI-BWPcll

Since it's Arduino based, most if not all of the software you need is already out there.
Here's the GRBL wiki.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki

You would have to do a lot of research to find and setup your software. If you use Eagle for your schematics , heres a video describing how you produce a cnc file from your schematic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKAV7udp3Y

Here's a couple of YouTube videos showing the build process and the machine engraving. This machine has a few acrylic parts. The engraving speed is very slow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-AA7zPDEqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq4Y9Eoha_E

The Gearbest page has a link to some videos and pdf files but I was afraid to download them. I think assembly instructions might be limited. If I had an extra $200 I would try it.

Good luck,
Rick
 

marzan

Senior Member
Do you know anyone with a 3D printer?
I remember seeing a few .stl files out there to make the parts for a cnc pcb machine. You just need the rods and bearings from memory. you would have to wade through the .STL libraries to find them.
Marz.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

Gearbest also sells this version. It appears to be a little bigger but doesn't seem as well built.
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_353895.html

It has rigid couplers instead of flexible. It list speed is 150 - 200mm/s instead of 500 - 600mm/s. It looks like this one has threaded rods and the smaller one has proper lead screws. The smaller one is really small. It's size is listed as 20.00 x 20.00 x 31.00 cm or 7.87 x 7.87 x 12.2 inches. The work area is listed in the comments as; length 13 cm, width 10 cm, height 4 cm or 5.11 x 3.9 x 1.57 inches. I think I like the smaller version.

You could probably replace the Arduino with a Picaxe to drive the GRBL shield. It looks like it has direction and step pins for each axis. The picaxe code to drive the steppers should be straight forward. Since you only want to drill holes, you only have to drive one axis at a time. The trick is getting the your drill locations converted to integer positions that relate to the distance the axis moves for each step pulse. It is probably possible.

Good luck,
Rick
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Many thanks all.
Thanks eggdweather, yes that unit looks good but I dont think it has a Z control, I think the lazer just shifts sideways.
SAborn thanks, will do some digging into DXF files, G-Code and Mach3. Plenty to read on.
Rick100 thanks for the links and writeups, very useful and helping a lot. If I take the plunge I will go for the version in #1. Got to do a lot of speed reading as the deal only for a couple of days.
Thanks marzan, no I don't know anyone with a 3D Printer. Something else I would like on my Christmas list.
Hope that's not left anyone out, now to read.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
I'm still hovering, the CNC deals end in hours. I have downloaded Flatcam, which is free, and should I believe take GRBL files from Diptrace and produce G-Code. It's now how to get the G-Code into a 3 axis interperetor to drive steppers and spindle. If I have to use Arduino then I feel I am turning my back on Picaxe, as well as having no knowledge how to complete the link with it. Like many times before I feel bad there are so many people out there in the Arduino camp with many examples using the device. I would like so much to use the Picaxe instead. Might still take the gamble tomorrow, could always build a bacon or cheese slicer with it.

EDIT: Decided against buying at last minute because I have found that with no parallel port CNC won't work? So I will look for another way to do things with a Picaxe. Don't want to buy old PC with PP. Will keep an eye out for mechanical bits going cheap to play with. Even if it takes all day to drill or route doesn't worry me. Thanks for all help on this

However, in the meantime my template use continues. There is nothing worse than drilling PCB holes for IC's only to find they are slightly out and you have to fiddle bending pins to fit.

I drill two holes first as best as I can in the top left and bottom right of the IC. I then have vero templates that have been countersunked to show which holes get drilled. I then push PCB pins through the two veroboard hole positions and into the PCB two holes. Once registerred I drill all holes. The countersink hole on the veroboard allows any accidental drill skid to be contained before it damages the PCB. When the veroboard template is worn I just make another. The IC sockets then fit like a dream. Hope this helps others.

IMG_1856.JPG
 
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Rick100

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

I couldn't resist the bargain and ordered one.:)

EDIT: Decided against buying at last minute because I have found that with no parallel port CNC won't work? So I will look for another way to do things with a Picaxe. Don't want to buy old PC with PP. Will keep an eye out for mechanical bits going cheap to play with. Even if it takes all day to drill or route doesn't worry me. Thanks for all help on this
Although Gearbest provides very little info, I don't believe the machine requires a parallel port on the host computer. It looks like an Arduino running GRBL software controls it. This is a very common setup. The G-code is fed to the controller over the USB port. The parts list shows a USB cable. My 3d printer uses a very similar setup. It has an Arduino Mega and a RAMPS board to drive the motors. There are CNC machines that run through the parallel port but I don't think this is one of them. I thought about buying the pieces and building one but I don't think it would be cheaper and certainly wouldn't be easier. I'm looking forward to building it.

Good luck,
Rick
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Rick, which one did you buy? I keep thinking about the products, even if I end up with the mechanical bits would be worth it. I have no experience with Arduino, which bits to buy, and how to program it. I have asked if the boards at rear are included as they do not appear in the supplied list. Be interested what you ordered. So many ideas in my head, direct draw on pcb with etchant resistant pen, routing etc
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

I ordered this one with a US plug.
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_356128.html

The parts list shows 1 control panel included. I assume that's the controller board but I could be wrong. The language barrier leaves a lot of room for error. One of the things I like about it is the parts are available for cheap on Ebay. It looks like you can buy everything except the aluminum plates that support the rods and motors. They would be hard to make accurately unless you have a mill. You probably don't have to know anything about the Arduino programming language to use it. You may have to load the GRBL program into the Arduino if it doesn't come with it already loaded. I loaded the GRBL program into an Arduino UNO yesterday with the Arduino IDE. It wasn't as easy as it should have been but there are instructions on line that should guide you through it. There is an alternate method to load the Hex file into the Arduino with a PC program called Xloader that looks easier but I haven't tried that yet. You will almost certainly have to adjust parameters like the number of steps per mm and delays between steps. That is done through the serial terminal using a program like universal g code sender. Here's a video of about setting up grbl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ioctbN9JV8
You can use the Arduino setup to get the steps per mm and confirm the machine is operating properly before trying to convert to a Picaxe.

Many years ago I made PC boards using a flatbed plotter with a Sharpie in the pen holder. The results were OK as long as you used wide traces. I hate making boards with point to point wiring.

Good luck,
Rick
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Many thanks Rick, I just ordered the same, you tipped me over the edge, laugh.
Thanks for the link. I looked previously on Ebay for bits but did not find over here, think US gets more/better selections. I know many times I see things but marked "Do not ship to UK"
So I must try and get my post without the wife seeing it otherwise will be wearing it. Best regards
 

marzan

Senior Member
EDIT: Decided against buying at last minute because I have found that with no parallel port CNC won't work?
However, in the meantime my template use continues. There is nothing worse than drilling PCB holes for IC's only to find they are slightly out and you have to fiddle bending pins to fit.

View attachment 19898
@Zor these days you don`t need a parrallel port. They have fixed the issue with interpolation that made USB ports impractical. Even newer idea is using the network port. I have bought a 6 axis one of these because of the extra IO pins as well.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks marzan, thats good to know. Thats the trouble on the internet, nothing is removed as it ages and I found so many articles saying CNC would not work without parallel port.

I have a learning curve in front of me on CNC. I use Diptrace and then found Flatcam to convert GRBL files to G-Code. I saw the thread where you had started using it. Not sure if I will still need it?, don't know if GRBL files now go straight to Arduino GRBL shield. Will do a lot of reading as I want to eventually use the Picaxe. Now going to follow up Rick100's link on Arduino setup. Regards
 

marzan

Senior Member
@Zor. I used flatcam to produce the Gcode for milling. Diptrace can export the drilling for Mach2/3 without the use of another program. Flatcam was the best program I could find for double sided PCB milling. Yes there is plenty of outdated info floating around. Makes it hard to find the easiest way to do things. I have 4 CNC machines at the moment, And have set up many more. If you need any help just ask.
Marz.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Hi marzan, many thanks. I looked at Mach3 and trying to find a cheaper route possibly free until I get in deeper. I was hoping the Gcode out from Flatcam would interface straight into Arduino bits, but that shows how little I know. However will keep reading. Just expecting to be kicked off the forum anytime as it's not Picaxe at this stage. Thanks again
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

I been trying to get the documentation referred to in the Gearbest description but they have it stored on a Chinese file sharing site. You can see the files names but not download them without registering. There are 2 small cell phone videos showing the machine running that you can download without registering. They don't seem to be copyrighted so I put them on youtube.
https://youtu.be/MGRdhhExbdQ
https://youtu.be/P1ctwkwZHjA

I am surprised how fast the machine will move. It certainly looks like it will drill holes in a pc board and might be able to mill out the traces. I wish they would provide easy access to the other build videos and documentation but building it should be pretty straightforward.

As for being Picaxe related, the hardware looks very Picaxe friendly. I think you could buy an Arduino prototype board like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Prototype-PCB-for-Arduino-UNO-R3-Shield-Board-DIY-/131350540308?hash=item1e951a3014:g:2K4AAOxyUgtTNuE1
and solder a 28X2 and its support circuitry on it making a Picaxe that would mate to Arduino shields. Then you could plug the GRBL driver board into it and control multiple steppers at a reasonable price.

Thanks marzan for pointing to Flatcam. I'm going to give it a try.

Good luck,
Rick
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks Rick. Looks very impressive, and as you say it really does move. Would be so good to mill out traces and drill holes. I got an email saying it was shipped today! Cannot wait to get my hands on it.
I downloaded Flatcam last week after seeing an earlier thread where marzan mentioned it. So my Diptrace can export GRBL files into it and Flatcam produces Gcode. It's the last bit where the Gcode goes regarding hardware to steppers I need to look at. I thing the Arduino UNO was mention, is that the R3 device. Then I think I need the Arduino GRBL ..... to get motors communicating. Don't want it all on a plate, it's worth the learning curve.
 

marzan

Senior Member
Hello ZOR,

Thanks marzan for pointing to Flatcam. I'm going to give it a try.


Rick
@Rick100 Flatcam can be a bit hard to understand in the beginning, but when you use it a few times, it becomes second nature. Brilliant for flipping 2 sided boards.
Marz.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Thanks Marz. I've never seen the 28x2 shield. Looks like I was trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm hoping the motor shield you pictured is the one included in the kit. The other cheap cnc engraver they sell shows this board.
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_353895.html

I'm also hoping it includes DRV8825 drivers instead of the A4988 since it's a 24 volt system. What type of cnc machines do you have and what driver electronics do you use? Twenty years ago I ran and programmed Swiss type cnc lathes (Citizen F12s and L20s). I always enjoyed controlling machines with lines of code.

ZOR, the Arduino is referred to as the UNO R3. It's just the revision number. It should be included in the kit.
 

marzan

Senior Member
Thanks Marz. I've never seen the 28x2 shield. Looks like I was trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm hoping the motor shield you pictured is the one included in the kit. The other cheap cnc engraver they sell shows this board.
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_353895.html
ZOR, the Arduino is referred to as the UNO R3. It's just the revision number. It should be included in the kit.
I'm also hoping it includes DRV8825 drivers instead of the A4988 since it's a 24 volt system. What type of cnc machines do you have and what driver electronics do you use? Twenty years ago I ran and programmed Swiss type cnc lathes (Citizen F12s and L20s). I always enjoyed controlling machines with lines of code.

@Rick100 From memory A4988 are good to 35V. I`ve used them on my 3d printer at 24V and they are fine. You need to install the heat sinks though. I have blown a couple up over the years, but at less than A$2 they are cheap to replace. The board you get with the Picaxe shield is just a blank prototype board, But the board on the back of the CNC machine looks like the same one I had a picture of mounted on an R3 Uno. They probably use the same software that they use to run 3D printers (Marlin, teacup etc)
I have a converted drill mill thats the big machine for heavy workloads as well as 4th axis work. A gantry mill that does my aluminium work and PCB`s 500X500mm. A BV20 lathe,a 3D printer and at present working on a 2.5m X 1.3M Plasma cutter. I use Geckodrives for all but the 3D printer for reliability. As for software, these days I cheat and use a program called D2NC that you can buy with Mach3. Its the best piece of software I have ever bought. It produces Gcode for Mach3. Also use it to tidy up my PCB files as it imports DXF`s to manipulate.
Marz.
 
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ZOR

Senior Member
Are you around Rick. My box of bits came tonight, lots of parts but no assembly instructions or technical data. Wifes gone mad asking what is it? might be out in garden tonight.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Are you around Rick. My box of bits came tonight, lots of parts but no assembly instructions or technical data. Wifes gone mad asking what is it? might be out in garden tonight.
Hello ZOR,

Glad to hear you got yours. Sorry about the garden thing. Unfortunately the tracking on mine shows it arriving at the sort facility of the Hong Kong airport on July 1st and has not moved since. I have a very bad feeling about it. I hear terrible stories about shipping from China. As for the assembly instructions, this Ebay listing shows a similar machine with some build pics.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-CNC-3-Axis-Desktop-Engraver-Machine-USB-PCB-Milling-Wood-Carving-Router-Kit-/111891372282?hash=item1a0d3ed8fa:g:68QAAOSwLpdW8pVd
Does this look like the kit you received? Gearbest has some files and assembly videos at the link under "Main Features" . I see no way of accessing them without joining the Chinese file sharing site they are on. You might leave a message for Gearbest asking how your supposed to get these files. If mine hasn't moved by tomorrow, I'm going to leave them a message asking them about it.

Good luck,
Rick
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Hello Rick, so sorry I thought you would have said me too on receiving. Thanks for the link, the item there looks better organised in respect to hardware bits bagged up as items, mine all in one bag. It has an Arduino UNO board plus CNC shield piggy backed.

I have asked for assembly & technical material, will see what reply I get. I also read the documentation on the one you sent link to. They say they supply asembly information when ordered, I said I wanted to buy but not until seeing instructions as maybe poor/language issues. Asked for it now, see what happens. If I get anything I will let you know. Just hope you get asap. I was expecting customs to get involved wanting money but nothing, just got delivered.

Back soon
 

Hydroid

Senior Member
I switched to milling my pc boards with a cnc engraver. http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers--3d-printer-kits/pp_356128.html?wid=21
That's not an endorsement of this product since I had to replace several parts to get good results. I think it's a little faster process than etching, since drilling the holes only requires a bit change.
I had PM'd Rick100 about this after reading his above response in another thread, and he suggested I place my query in this thread in case others can benefit from the discussion or offer suggestions.

First, let me state right off the bat that I know nothing about CNC machines - other than what a stepper motor is and how they operate.

I make quite a few PCB's in my Picaxe hobby, and while I like the board design (Diptrace) and making the PCB (currently positive sensitized PCB with printed circuit transparencies in a self made UV developer), I HATE drilling all the holes. That alone, using a machine like this for the holes seems like a great idea...

So forgive me if my questions seem really 'newbish', they are :)

Rick, what parts did you have to replace to get the machine to work properly - and why?

I looked at a lot of youtube videos and google search results about this machine and it seems overwhelming. I know zero about Arduino. Would I have to get into programming of a new type of micro controller to use this machine?

I've read that it's possible to take the data file that is generated by Diptrace, convert it somehow, and then load it into the machine's controller. I have quite a few saved Diptrace PCB files and this would be ideal - Convert them, load them up and away we go to manufacture and / or drill a PCB. How big of a learning curve involved here?

Lastly, the price of this machine seems pretty good (currently about $260 Canadian and $25 shipping). I see mention of an EU plug and see no way to change that on the gearbest site. At first I thought they were talking about the AC input plug for the machine, but then I found a bit of stuff stating that a power supply (suggested 24V DC and at least 10A) would be required....

So, if I were to order the beast, what else would I need to get it up and running?

Lastly, would this be a good starting machine for a complete CNC newb?

Thanks, John (Hydroid).
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello John,

I think I will start answering your questions with an overview of the machine. Most of the parts can be bought from Ebay or Banggood. I think the only parts you can't order are the aluminum plates and 8MM rods that are drilled and tapped. All the electronics are readily available and cheap.

The controller is based on an Arduino Uno with a CNC Shield Ver 3.0 . The CNC Shield has sockets for 4 stepper driver boards on it. The machine only uses 3. The software that runs on the Arduino Uno is called GRBL. The Arduino has to be connected to a PC through the USB port. It shows up as a Com port(serial) on a Windows machine. The GRBL software on the Arduino accepts text called G-code from the PC over the serial port. G-code consist of simple commands like G1X2.0F5.0 or M3S5000 . A program like UniversalGCodeSender on the PC sends the G-codes to the Arduino. The GRBL software interpets the commands and makes the machine move. So your pcb design has to be turned into G-code programs.

The method I have been using is:
Design the board with Eagle, although Diptrace would work, and export the Gerber and drill files.
Use the Flatcam program, suggested by marzan, to turn those files into G-code files.
Use UniversalGCodeSender to serve the files to the Arduino. UniversalGCodeSender also lets you see the milling path before you send it to the machine.


Rick, what parts did you have to replace to get the machine to work properly - and why?
The machine came with 24V and 12V power supplies. From watching Youtube videos, most people run the spindle motor on 24V and the stepper motors on 12V. I run the steppers and spindle motor from the 24V supply so the steppers have more torque. I was afraid the initial current surge from starting the spindle motor with the included relay would damage the 24V supply, so I added a manual speed control. That allows me to ramp up the motor speed and avoid the current spike. These changes may not be necessary. Try the original set up and see if it works.

I ended up replacing all three lead screws to reduce the backlash. The original ones had about .3mm of backlash and the replacements had about .08mm. I also ordered some antibacklash nuts for the leadscrews but they were poor quality and wouldn't thread onto the screws. Getting this cheap stuff from China is iffy.
The original stepper motors were 400 steps per revolution and aren't very powerful. I replaced the X axis stepper motor with a 200 steps per revolution motor that had more torque. I'm still using the originals on the Y and Z axis. One of the problems with the machine is you seem to get whatever was cheapest that day. I think the quality can vary wildly. Since the X axis stepper takes more current, I replaced it's A4988 driver board on the CNC Shield with a DRV8825.

I also added aluminum angle to support the vertical 2020 extrusions. I also added an accurate homing circuit so I could return to a known point after power down (crashes).


I looked at a lot of youtube videos and google search results about this machine and it seems overwhelming. I know zero about Arduino. Would I have to get into programming of a new type of micro controller to use this machine?
It is Arduino based. Even if the software comes preloaded on the board, you may want to update to a newer version later, so you should accept learning to use the Arduino IDE. You don't have to learn to program an Arduino in C++, just load the program onto the board. It's not that hard. You will probably have to configure the GRBL software through UnivrsalGCodeSender for your machine. That's not hard either.



I've read that it's possible to take the data file that is generated by Diptrace, convert it somehow, and then load it into the machine's controller. I have quite a few saved Diptrace PCB files and this would be ideal - Convert them, load them up and away we go to manufacture and / or drill a PCB. How big of a learning curve involved here?
The overview at the top of the post describes my toolchain. It is not as bad as learning a new programming language but it takes a little time to learn each step. Exporting the gerber and drill files from Diptrace should be a simple process. Flatcam is strange at first but makes sense after doing a couple of boards. UniversalGCodeSender is not a complicated program but using it to operate the machine requires some knowledge of how CNC machines and the GRBL program work. You will need to learn about the machines coordinate system and some some G-codes. Most of these things are not that hard but do require time to learn. The good news is you don't have to buy anything to try these out. Flatcam and UniversalGCodeSender are free. Flatcam is Python based and UniversalGCodeSender is Java based. You can Export your files from Diptrace and use Flatcam to create the G-code. Flatcam will show the tool paths. Then you can load them into UGS and see the tool paths also. There is a new version of UGS called UGS Platform.

https://github.com/winder/Universal-G-Code-Sender

You can also download the Arduino IDE which runs under Java.

Lastly, the price of this machine seems pretty good (currently about $260 Canadian and $25 shipping). I see mention of an EU plug and see no way to change that on the gearbest site. At first I thought they were talking about the AC input plug for the machine, but then I found a bit of stuff stating that a power supply (suggested 24V DC and at least 10A) would be required....
I'm using the single 24V 5A supply that came with the kit. It came with an EU cord. I just unplugged that cord and plugged in an IEC cord from a PC. I have an analog 12A current meter on mine and it barely moves. The only problem I've had with the supply is that it turns itself off when it doesn't have enough load. The supply you get could be completely different than mine.


So, if I were to order the beast, what else would I need to get it up and running?
Aside from the stuff listed above, drill bits, engraving bits, an end mill to level the bed, and patience. The parts from Banggood are Ok for this.

Lastly, would this be a good starting machine for a complete CNC newb?
The machine, if you can get it running, is probably the most affordable intoduction to CNC you can get. It is very basic in it's hardware, software and operation. That's why I bought it. It also has limited ability. You won't be cutting aluminum angle with it. It is sturdy enough to make pcb's though.

I don't want to gloss over the learning curve. Most of the steps aren't that hard but learning all of them requires a lot of time and commitment. Even after you get the machine going and are milling boards, problems will still pop up. Most of the trouble I have now is a result of bowed boards causing the milling not to be deep enough. That's the reason I added an accurate homing mechinism. So I could make another pass on the board, even after power down. I will try the board leveling feature of Chillipeppr, which is a browser based alternative to UGS, someday.

My big reservation about recommending you buy it is the roll of the dice you take with buying anything like this from China. It's one thing if your your $2 lcd display does't work, but this is a significant amount of money. If you should get it, I will be glad to help you as best I can. Keep in mind, I'm no expert at this.


Here 's a video of mine.
https://youtu.be/SozPf30nWsk
This guy does a couple of videos on building, modding and using the machine.
https://youtu.be/vm5llQCux2Y

Good luck,
Rick
 

cravenhaven

Senior Member
Just a quick alternative to learning/Using the IDE for programming Arduino.
In a completely different and unrelated project using Raspberry Pi and Arduino boards I came across a web service called Platformio that allows you to send a text file of Arduino (or many other MCU's) code and it will return the compiled code that you can download with AVRDUDE to your Arduino board. Of course you have no debugging capability, but if your are just making small modifications to some existing code it might be worth investigating.
 

Hydroid

Senior Member
Hi Rick,

Thanks for a thorough reply. I actually read it last night a couple of times and then again today a few times, while visiting the gearbest site and the links to the youtube videos you provided. It seems quite a bit clearer now - Still a lot of information to digest. I've been on the fence on one of these since I first read you note about it on the other Picaxe thread. I've decided to make the leap and have ordered one. Hopefully, no problems develop, but Mr. Murphy (of Murphy's Law) never seems to be that kind to me so I may have to take you up on your offer of assistance :)

While on the gearbest site I also noticed their Laser engraver for about $100.... So many toys, so little time...

Thanks for the new website you mentioned (Banggood) - As my wife would say, just what I need, another website to spend money on.. :)

Regards, John.
 

Hydroid

Senior Member
Hi,

For those that bought and built this machine, did you also have quite a few parts left over?

I finished assembly last night and am now working on mounting the electronics and running the wiring. I'm surprised at how many parts are left. I have about 40 M3 screws, about 35 M5 screws, 3 brass nuts for the threaded rods, two springs (no idea what they're for) and about two dozen brass standoffs...

Overall, I thought the parts were quite good - nicely built, nice fit to all the parts and went together fairly easily - once I figured out where all the parts went; Sure would have been nice to have an instruction manual rather than trying to glean details by watching U-Tube videos and looking at photos.

The only thing I found - and I saw on a U-Tube video that someone else had to do this also - was put a couple of washers between the rods and their ends pieces that attach to the frame rails on the back slide rods (left-right motion). The rods were about a millimetre short...

And as I saw on another video - I believe it was Rick's, I too threw out the two plastic electronics backing boards and am making my own out of a piece of FR4 PC board with the copper etched off. The supplied pieces had an incredible number of holes - non of which seemed to line up.

Regards, John.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Hello John,

I finished assembly last night and am now working on mounting the electronics and running the wiring. I'm surprised at how many parts are left. I have about 40 M3 screws, about 35 M5 screws, 3 brass nuts for the threaded rods, two springs (no idea what they're for) and about two dozen brass standoffs...

Overall, I thought the parts were quite good - nicely built, nice fit to all the parts and went together fairly easily -

You sure work fast. Glad to hear your happy with the parts quality. I had a few left over screws but nothing like you received.

3 brass nuts for the threaded rods, two springs
I looked over my machine and don't see any springs. Do you mean nuts for the leadscrews and do the springs fit over the leadscrew nuts? I just ordered some anti-backlash nuts for mine and they fit that description.
http://www.banggood.com/T8-Anti-Backlash-Spring-Loaded-Nut-For-2mm-8mm-Acme-Threaded-Rod-Lead-Screws-p-1111893.html?rmmds=search

The only thing I found - and I saw on a U-Tube video that someone else had to do this also - was put a couple of washers between the rods and their ends pieces that attach to the frame rails on the back slide rods (left-right motion). The rods were about a millimetre short...
I had to do some shimming on mine to get things lined up.

While on the gearbest site I also noticed their Laser engraver for about $100.... So many toys, so little time...

Thanks for the new website you mentioned (Banggood) - As my wife would say, just what I need, another website to spend money on.. :)
I really like Banggood for electronic kits and cheap cnc stuff. Unfortunately for my bank account this stuff is addictive. :( I'm considering buying one of the 350 USD K40 laser cutters off Ebay.

Just a quick tip on the electronics. If an axis runs in the wrong direction you can just turn the motors 4 pin plug around to reverse it. Make sure you power down completely first. I've heard it will burn out the stepper driver board if you don't.

Good luck,
Rick
 

Hydroid

Senior Member
Extra Parts...

I looked over my machine and don't see any springs. Do you mean nuts for the leadscrews and do the springs fit over the leadscrew nuts? I just ordered some anti-backlash nuts for mine and they fit that description.
http://www.banggood.com/T8-Anti-Backlash-Spring-Loaded-Nut-For-2mm-8mm-Acme-Threaded-Rod-Lead-Screws-p-1111893.html?rmmds=search
This is where the photo I took of what I have should be, but after trying for 30 minutes to insert the photo, and then add it as an attachment - all without success - I give up!

Turns out on closer inspection, I have three springs... My second nuts are a little different looking (same as the main nuts, but shorter in length along the threaded portion), but same purpose I guess. I'm thinking that you install them with the spring compressed and that compression keeps the drive rod seated on the same side of the thread. But what prevents the non-locked nut from spinning and loosening off, just the spring pressure?

As well, on the X and Y axis, there is ample room to install such a device, but room is kind of scarce on the Z axis - although I guess it doesn't have to move that much...


I really like Banggood for electronic kits and cheap cnc stuff. Unfortunately for my bank account this stuff is addictive. I'm considering buying one of the 350 USD K40 laser cutters off Ebay.
I hear you, when I first looked at that website, after reading about it in your message, my first thought was, "Great, another website where I can spend a lot of $$...". Oh well, can't take it with me... :)


Just a quick tip on the electronics. If an axis runs in the wrong direction you can just turn the motors 4 pin plug around to reverse it. Make sure you power down completely first. I've heard it will burn out the stepper driver board if you don't.
Thanks for the tip. I wired all the steppers temporarily this morning just to give it a quick try out and one axis was reversed to what I thought was correct. I was looking at the CNC shield and there appears to be pins that select the direction and stuff, but I just took your suggestion and bingo, solved!

In playing with it, I did manage to drive one of the axis (Z) into its top mechanical stop. I quickly hit the reset button on the shield and all movement stopped. Luckily, no damage. In researching a bit more, I came across a wiki that talks about GRBL 0.9 (the version on my controller) and they highly suggest added limit switches (micro switches) to each end of each axis to prevent exactly this. It also goes on to mention that by doing it a certain way, you can have the switches (one on each axis) act as a "HOME" stop switch so that hitting HOME will return the machine to its 0,0,0 point..

I see from inspecting the shield that there are six sets of pins labelled "End Stops" (Z+, Z-, Y+, Y-, X+ and X-). Have you installed anything like this? If not, how have you prevented smacking into the mechanical limit? I read in the wiki about 'Soft stops' and such, but I haven't yet had enough coffee to wrap my head around all this new info.. :)

And one last question (for now) if I may: When drilling the holes in a PCB, is there a way to instruct that machine on what speed to use to move the Z axis down? With some of the smaller drills, 0.026" for example, I would think it would be best to go a little slower while drilling...

Regards, John.
 

Rick100

Senior Member
Turns out on closer inspection, I have three springs... My second nuts are a little different looking (same as the main nuts, but shorter in length along the threaded portion), but same purpose I guess. I'm thinking that you install them with the spring compressed and that compression keeps the drive rod seated on the same side of the thread. But what prevents the non-locked nut from spinning and loosening off, just the spring pressure?
Do your parts look like this?
anti_backlash.jpg



Oh well, can't take it with me... :)
I'm just afraid I'll run out before I go.:)

In playing with it, I did manage to drive one of the axis (Z) into its top mechanical stop. I quickly hit the reset button on the shield and all movement stopped. Luckily, no damage. In researching a bit more, I came across a wiki that talks about GRBL 0.9 (the version on my controller) and they highly suggest added limit switches (micro switches) to each end of each axis to prevent exactly this. It also goes on to mention that by doing it a certain way, you can have the switches (one on each axis) act as a "HOME" stop switch so that hitting HOME will return the machine to its 0,0,0 point..

I see from inspecting the shield that there are six sets of pins labelled "End Stops" (Z+, Z-, Y+, Y-, X+ and X-). Have you installed anything like this? If not, how have you prevented smacking into the mechanical limit? I read in the wiki about 'Soft stops' and such, but I haven't yet had enough coffee to wrap my head around all this new info.. :)
I've added homing to my machine on the X and Y axis. It's a little more elaborate than a simple switch though. The schematic is at the 5:18 mark in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SozPf30nWsk
The Arduino Uno has a limited number of pins so instead of a home and two end limit switches for each axis, it uses one pin and two switches. The switches are wired in parallel. I tried soft limits but I got into some funky state where I couldn't jog the machine so I turned them off. I wouldn't worry about home and limit switches yet. The motors don't have enough power to do serious damage to the machine. Keep in mind GRBL v9 has the Z-limit and the spindle enable pin swapped.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl

And one last question (for now) if I may: When drilling the holes in a PCB, is there a way to instruct that machine on what speed to use to move the Z axis down? With some of the smaller drills, 0.026" for example, I would think it would be best to go a little slower while drilling...
When you get into using the Flatcam program to produce your g-code, you will be able to specify your feed rate.

Good luck,
Rick
 
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