mimic radiation sensor using comunication devices

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mrmrzamany

New Member
Hi,
so i have this nuclear radiation sensor, but sadly i can't test it because it needs strong sources which i don't have
link http://www.teviso.com/file/pdf/rd2014-dataspecification.pdf

so what i want to do is to mimic the radiation sensor, (RF, wifi,etc..) , if you have some suggestion please let me know..
I got an idea to use an RF pair that has TTL output, but the location of source is a big problem ( in this case the emitter is like the source for me)

can you suggest some other sensors, or any thing could help in finding a device with TTL output, and can know the location of source ?

FYI the system will be in a drone
 
S

srnet

Senior Member
mrmrzamany said:
unfortunately, these sources are very week ( can't be used because the detector is placed in a drone, and these sources should be placed exactly above the sensor)
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For good reason the sources are weak.

So do the sums, see what reading you get with the weak source close in and work out whether the sensor gives the right reading for that distance.

It would then be reasonable to assume that the sensor will read a much stronger source at much greater distance correctly.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
mrmrzamany: Best you clearly specify EXACTLY what you were hoping to achieve ! Was it to locate from a drone radioactive materials on/in the ground below? Are you up with the nature & ranges of diverse nuclear radiation? Have you done any past work with the likes of a Geiger Counter ?

The Swiss sensor you mention (which doesn't detect alpha particles) is probably only good for very close in work & may be useless droning around overhead. Be aware that random cosmic rays often give false triggers too- you may end up chasing deep space!

Ah- where is this "use" country you live in ? Stan.
 
M

mrmrzamany

New Member
manuka said:
mrmrzamany: Best you clearly specify EXACTLY what you were hoping to achieve ! Was it to locate from a drone radioactive materials on/in the ground below? Are you up with the nature & ranges of diverse nuclear radiation? Have you done any past work with the likes of a Geiger Counter ?

The Swiss sensor you mention (which doesn't detect alpha particles) is probably only good for very close in work & may be useless droning around overhead. Be aware that random cosmic rays often give false triggers too- you may end up chasing deep space!

Ah- where is this "use" country you live in ? Stan.
Click to expand...
what i want to do is, to have alternative option because radiation is dangerous ! so the swiss sensor has TTL output, I'm looking for RF, WIFI.. etc that has TTL output and I want to know the location of the emitter for example if its RF ( emitter will be used as the radiation source in this case) do you have an idea in any device that works like that (TTL output like the sensor and a method to know the location of the source)

Note that i gonna use drone ( the receiver will be in the drone, and the emitter will be above a table for example if the RF will be used)
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
All sensors will have or can be made to have TTL compatible output so that is really a minor issue.

It seems you want some mechanism which can determine how far away from a transmitter and in what direction a drone is from that transmitter.

Determining distance from a source could be done by using RF, visible or infrared light and even sound or ultrasound, by using something which can determine the strength of the signal received.

Determining a direction can be done by rotational scanning, as a radar would, or can be done with an array of receivers, and possibly both, and determining in which direction a signal is strongest.

Unfortunately, unless you can find someone who has done exactly what you want already, others can only make suggestions as to how it could be done. They might be able to eliminate some possibilities as impractical or too difficult, but you will have to take the lead in providing the parameters to measure each option against.

Someone doing what you want to do would likely have progressed from simpler systems and having tested solutions for determining distance and direction to something more complicated. They would probably be your best guides as experts in the fields with better knowledge of what works and doesn't.

If this is some sort of competition it may be worth seeing how other entrants have done it, or looking for other similar efforts. Google may be able to offer better suggestions or information on what to use and how to do it than most members of the forum can.
 
hippy

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
This paper may be particularly useful -

http://www.roboticsproceedings.org/rss11/p42.pdf

"Online Localization of Radio-Tagged Wildlife with an Autonomous Aerial Robot System" where they are using drones to determine the exact location of tagged wildlife. That goes into quite some details of the system they used and how it works and provides links to related work. There are possibly similar works which can be found on-line with a targeted search.
 
A

AllyCat

Senior Member
Hi,

+1, That's an excellent summary of the issues from hippy in post #9 (and important questions from manuka in #7).

mrmrzamany said:
http://www.teviso.com/file/pdf/rd2014-dataspecification.pdf
so what i want to do is to mimic the radiation sensor, (RF, wifi,etc..) ,
Click to expand...
But the sensor which you link in post #1 does NOT appear to be (significantly) directional (i.e. less than even a simple dipole antenna and much less than any "optical" device would have).

So how do you intend to determine the direction (and distance) of the radiation source in the "real" application? What type of radiation are you planning to detect, since some can be focussed (or collimated) easily, others can't?

Cheers, Alan.
 
M

manuka

Senior Member
mrmrzamany: We patient responders can not read your mind I'm afraid. Suggest you PLEASE respond to these exact 13 questions. Short responses & links acceptable - off you go !

1. Where are you in this "use" country? (It's assumed your "use" is USA)
2. Why the quest - competition,course work, project etc?
3. Budget ?
4. Time frame?
5. What wireless skills & resources do you have ?
6. What frequency was this wireless emitter intended to utilise?
7. Have you worked with classic UHF (perhaps 433 MHz or 2.4 GHz) or IR data devices?
8. Are you familiar with DF (wireless direction finding) techniques, many classically needing triangulation "fixes"?
9. Are you aware of the absorption,bouncing & non line of sight propagation of many radio waves?
10. Is this intended for use close range indoors or the wide open outdoors ?
11. How large is this drone & what payload can it carry?
12. Were you intending the wireless seeking drone to automatically home in on the emitter?
13. Are you familiar with nuclear radiation basics ?

Footnote: Why is nuclear radiation even being mentioned? Alpha (helium nuclei) & Beta particles (high speed electrons) have very short range & are classically stopped by just paper or aluminium foil. More penetrating gamma rays are EM (electromagnetic) waves but need the likes of specialised electronic sensors,photographic film or Geiger counters to detect them.

FWIW many everyday items are radioactive - old gas lamp mantles, smoke detectors, old clock/watch dials, granite bench tops & rocks, older pottery glazes,kitty litter (due to the clays), Brazil Nuts & even bananas (due to natural potassium isotope concentration).
 
S

srnet

Senior Member
mrmrzamany said:
can you suggest some other sensors, or any thing could help in finding a device with TTL output, and can know the location of source ?

FYI the system will be in a drone
Click to expand...
We can probably all suggest ways of 'locating a source' but without some clues as to what it is you are trying to do, its difficult to advise.
 
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