PICAXE'd Dev. Boards ?

Is Rev. Ed intending PICAXE "platform" upgrades ? It's buying time of year down under, especially for educational institutions, & even the educational/hobbiest market looks to be rapidly moving away from DIP ICs to more temptingly self contained & smaller Dev. Boards. Rev. Ed's AXE091 Ultimate Development Board is increasingly considered too large and costly (~US$100 here).

Two recent tiny footprint releases pictured,one the new & breadboard friendly ESP8266 WiFi Dev. Board, for which a BASIC has already been produced. The other is the just out RPi Zero, which is made in Wales & sells - holy smoke - for a mere US$5 (or even "FREE")!

Hence I ponder (after 50+ years in electronics, 40+ in e-tech. education & a good decade with PICAXEs) that a PICAXEd version of such a modern Dev. Board would be very appealing! Stan.

These 28X2 and 08M2 products have already been on sale for many years:

http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/PICAXE-Chips/PICAXE-28X2-Module/

http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/PICAXE-Chips/PICAXE-08M2-Module/

manuka said:

The other is the just out RPi Zero, which sells -holy smoke - for a mere US$5 (or even FREE)!.

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It's not FREE : you have to buy MagPi magazine...
You must add a µSD card and connectors.
For educational purpose, the raspi is many more complex than a Picaxe.

Points appreciated Besqueut - I'm wary of tech. overkill & continue to use & promote PICAXEs educationally.

Technical: Those boards you mention are very familar to me,although -sigh- the local cost for 08M2 AXE231 is >US$20 (+p&p + extra for the programming cable). This is ~twice that of the greatly enhanced ESP8266 Dev. Board (which has free worldwide shipping & can link via WiFi for programming & display).

To really put this in perspective compare the ~US$200 NET001 beside recent IP serving work done here in NZ with a WiFi linked ESP8266-01 & PICAXE-08M2 (main parts B.O.M. ~US$5). All manner of IP tweaking and web serving is possible merely using 08M2 supplied industry standard AT commands.

If the PICAXE interpreter was "aboard" the ESP2866, making it thus capable of handling all the wonderful PICAXE features & sensors we know & love, then only the single ESP module would be needed! Programming could be wireless via WiFi. I'm surely not the only one thinking of this!?

My initial post essentially just relates to the blistering rapidity at which the electronics field continues to move,with hence the query - IS ANYTHING PICAXEable in the wings? Stan.

I designed the attached PCB that works very well for 8 and 20 pin PICAXE chips...I use 08M, 08M2, and 20x2...there is plenty of space for prototyping.

I posted the design file on this thread... starting around post 6...

If you do want to print some up...let me know...I've created a similar PCB (but for SMT, and lacking PICAXE specific features), BUT, with a little work, I was able to panelize the PCB so that for the same price, you get twice the PCBs! I get 20 prototype PCBs for $25 from China (delivered).

Recently I got some 3 x AA battery boxes with switch and small solderless protoboards from ebay [China good price ] and just today started building up an integrated unit with the adhesive back of the protoboards stuck on battery box switch side. It's obvious there are various shortcomings but I couldn't resist at the price [and speaking of resist the resistors for download are not yet there ] - I use mainly 08, 14, 20 pin units so same power and download pins...The paint marks on side are just to assure using correct box parts... I looked up prices 5pc $3.10 board, 5pc BBoxes $7. - so about $2/pair...

Excellent concerns IMO. I'm fat, dumb & happy with the DIPs, I actually enjoy soldering up custom PCBs for my own projects, but I'm just sick that way. I am also teaching with 08M2 DIPS, and I build the breadboards for my students. They are enthusiastic beginners, and I think PICAXE BASIC is much easier to teach & learn than Arduino. But I'm concerned that after my class, students will be left high & dry since there are no development boards available. I would love to see a project board with a battery holder or connector, voltage regulator, switch, servo headers, a few LEDs and a small breadboard. Either SMT PICAXEs or a socket that will accept a 20M2, 14M2 or 08M2.

Great postings guys, but this is going OT! I'm a great fan of switched battery boxes & breadboards, (perhaps with the BB even INSIDE the box -see below), but my query was essentially related to Rev. Ed's possible take on tiny Dev. Boards of the style I'd initially mentioned. When ESP/Rpi 0 & the like offer ready to roll fire breathing platforms at such tempting prices it's hard credit that nothing PICAXEable has (yet?) arisen.

BESQUEUT said:

For educational purpose, the raspi is many more complex than a Picaxe.

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Indeed, on a Pi the steps you have to go through to just flash a LED are just too complex for most applications.

Now if they would take the board and use different firmware, cut the power consumption a lot (its 140mA) and turn it into a simple terminal style micro with basic interpreter (think BBC Micro) without the need to load Linux, then that really would be a very useful device.

manuka said:

Great postings guys, but this is going OT! I'm a great fan of switched battery boxes & breadboards...

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This may also be OT but I'm not sure what you mean by "Dev boards".

I develop my Picaxe code on a development rig and finally deploy to target hardware. (Actually, my dev rig is a Raspberry Pi connected to a small breadboard).

Are you talking about a small board, surface mount Picaxe chip and terminal strip for I/O? Or are you saying Picaxe is now too expensive compared to other technology?

What I imagined when I read "dev board" was a configuration that goes from dev to users without a whole new engineering project. That's one of the things that make these other platforms enviable.

What I imagined when I read "dev board" was a configuration that goes from dev to users without a whole new engineering project. That's one of the things that make these other platforms enviable.

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Yes-that's indeed what I'd meant & apologies to those who'd fired on simpler DIY PICAXEable approaches.

FWIW -& at least here in NZ- educational electronics is tending (as one teacher put it ) "less on soldering & more on solutions". Teacher management of classroom, tight teaching times, resources & facilities also favours modules (especially if they're cheaper) rather than fiddly components.Those of us who've trouble finding the likes of a white LED on their weekend workbench should ponder issues attendant with juggling 30 hormonal teens who've under an hour to tame an e-topic...

EXTRA: Aside from Dev. Board platforms already mentioned (of which I personally favour ESP8266 "engines"), the Australian MicroMite has become popular, with a new Micromite Plus (US$40 range assembled) likely even more so. As their guru Geoff. "Backshed" Graham outlines-

The Micromite Plus has all the features of the standard Micromite plus the following:
- 64-pin Microchip PIC32MX470 chip with 45 free I/O pins (plus 100-pin chip in the future)
- 100KB for BASIC programs, 108KB RAM and runs at 120MHz.
- Up to four serial ports, two SPI ports and two I2C ports.
- USB 2.0 console interface (in addition to the serial interface)
- SD card support for cards up to 64GB and formatted FAT16 or FAT32
- Support for SSD1963 based displays in 4.3", 5" and 7" sizes
- Support for SPI displays (1.8" to 2.8") as in the Micromite 4.7 Beta
- Touch panel support including interrupts on touch down and up.
- Advanced graphics controls.
- Interface for a PS2 keyboard.
- Can be used as a stand alone computer using the PS2 keyboard and LCD panel.

As a measure of technical progress over the last 4 years note developments from their 2011 original ! Stan.

We do have the AXE401 PICAXE-28X2 Shield Base ...

www.picaxestore.com/axe401

The problem with all-in development boards, having 'everything' on them, is that they are usually more expensive than people want to pay for including in their individual project or application, have things on them which people don't actually want or need in the end product, or don't have something and bits need to be added anyway.

Many of our project boards could be called Dev Boards for specific projects or applications.

This shows an interesting trend in education and it's obvious that as technology moves on, so must the method and content of what is taught.
However, I do have a concern with everything trending towards a "system" and "instant results" even if this is what is required to maintain an interest.
In my day, integrated circuits were in their infancy and educators frowned upon their use until the basics using discrete transistors has been grasped.
"You can't use a quad NAND gate chip until you can make a NAND gate using discrete transistors, otherwise, who will design the next type of chip?".
Where is the knowledge going to come from to develop tomorrows "systems" if a "system" is the educational starting point?

BB: A traditional lament I'm afraid... I've even encountered e-youngsters (scouts etc) dazzled by the bare copper revealed when wire insulation is stripped! "What's that stuff ???" They knew all about connectors & cables but had never considered just what was within.

Given the slender teaching time often available it could be that -rather than getting bogged down with basics- there's something to be said for learners first being enthused with the state of the art, & then going back to see how it's been organised or evolved. I well recall in early calculus classes our gifted teacher showing how the technique could be used to determine the most efficient height to width ratio of a food can. THAT really made sense & gave incentive to forge ahead with the daunting derivatives!

Given the approaching season consider perhaps Michael Faraday's Victorian candle lectures.
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[Ponder mode] Training institutions in many fields often linger conservatively a generation behind the state of the art. Although blinkered thinking & -sigh- "we've always done it this way" demarcation prevails,such reluctance may not be all bad, as with tight budgets "leading edge may be bleeding edge".

Aside from the curriculum content (on which there's rarely agreement), in recent decades I've experienced academic e-battles & facility/union standoffs over emerging educational technology. Consider user friendly microcontrollers (pre PICAXE 1990s BASIC Stamps), WiFi instead of cabled networks, internet versus data books, DOS versus Windows versus Linux versus ..., portable laptops instead of daunting desktops, BYOD (Bring Your Own Devices) versus dedicated computer rooms, web delivered material versus paper handouts, typing pools instead of personal word processing (this became a particular work conflict in mid 1980s), digital photography versus darkrooms etc etc.

In my early career educational discord abounded with log tables/slide rules versus calculators,as did standoffs between punch card/paper tape batch processing & adherents (myself included) of HP-65 style portables . [/Ponder mode]
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And never mind your discrete transistors! My own 1960s electronics training was frustratingly largely valve/tube, yet I'd been wrangling semiconductor circuitry for some years prior. Stan.

hippy said:

We do have the AXE401 PICAXE-28X2 Shield Base ...

www.picaxestore.com/axe401

The problem with all-in development boards, having 'everything' on them, is that they are usually more expensive than people want to pay for...

Click to expand...

This is why I questioned what was meant by "Dev board" in the initial post, where the new £4 RaspberryPi was used as an example.

The Pi is a computer, while the Picaxe is a micro controller. You can do a lot of computer stuff on the new Pi without connecting switches, lights, motors & so on. But if you wanted to connect these things, you would have to solder in a connector first, then use an idc from Pi to breadboard, then fiddle around with components and wires.

If you want a cheap micro controller which can do stuff out-of-the-box, you probably need a BBC micro:bit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4hVG2Br1W1LKCmw8nSm9WnQ/introducing-the-bbc-micro-bit (...but they look a bit boring to me. I'll let you know when ours finally arrive!).

In our school we ran with RaspberryPi for a couple of terms last year, which really caught the imagination of many of the Computer Science pupils. Picaxe was also used for after-school students doing the "Duke Of Edinbough" award.

In the UK, before selecting what hardware to use in Computer Science, you need to determine what you are hoping to achieve (generally, its all about high exam results at the end of the year).

Since Picaxe requires an understanding of electronics, and the time to fiddle around with components and bits of wire, it is more likely to make an appearance in a Technologies class or after school club than Computer Science.

I get no sense here that anyone is proposing anything but an "addition" to the PICAXE line. Perhaps even just an "update" in some cases.

We've all seen plenty of ways to soften the "hardware" blow of building a PICAXE prototype. The forum is full of small projects with connectors, regulator, etc., that plug into protoboards to just get us to the point of PROGRAM START! If by doing that, we also create a simple "DEV BOARD" that goes right into the final product then I see nothing but advantage.

To my thinking this can only add to the market potential of PICAXE.

I guess I am just not getting what some consider a "DEV BOARD" to be, exactly how that is defined. Perhaps someone needs to come up with a specification of what a simple PICAXE "DEV BOARD" would actually have and be.

To me the many boards on the PICAXE Store page: http://www.picaxestore.com/index.php/en_gb/picaxe/teaching-systems.html offer so much to education institutions.

I know I've said it before but I just can't stop myself - The AXE092 Schools Experimenter offers so much in a small board. Dozens of projects can be developed around this one development board, with no wires or breadboards required. Alas, it only appears to be available as a set of 5 complete kits (great for schools, I guess) or a bare board.

Texasclodhopper: Well said !

SteveDee: Thanks for mentioning the BBC micro:bit .Few outside UK education will probably know of it, so perhaps check this link. (Update- roll out now looking early 2016)

Hippy: Check this historical Dev. Board insight and a (perhaps now dated?) 2013 article.
Given today's "smart phone in every pocket" age & internet expectations I'd say a near essential in a new PICAXE Dev.Board would now be WiFi or (less preferably?) Bluetooth.

See the clunky DS18B20/ESP8266-01 web feeding layout just to hand - programmed in BASIC. Of course the new ESP8266 breadboardable Dev. Board would have made this much neater- I can't stand such messy layouts!

Of course a serial linked 08M2 could readily read the DS18B20 under refined & user friendly PICAXE BASIC while also serial "AT" command controlling the ESP8266's WiFi and power. Local Kiwi guru Andrew Hornblow has recently been doing great work with such PICAXEable approaches.

inglewoodpete Agreed -a great schools starter ! What ages/skills/resources/time/background have your kids?

hippy said:

We do have the AXE401 PICAXE-28X2 Shield Base ...

www.picaxestore.com/axe401

Click to expand...

And a jolly good development board it is too.

Could be improved, a 40X2 with firmware that allows for the SPI and I2C hardware ports to be seperate, but that about it.

I also dont get why a board needs 'everything' on it as well, a lot of plug in stuff for Arduino form factor boards is so cheap these days, its difficult to compete and as you say people end up paying for stuff they dont need.

Hi,

not mentioning the recent Rasperry zero... while the Rasperry fondation is getting closer to Code club.

The most versatile and at the same time the simplest microcontroller development board must be to shove an AXE201 (28X2 module) into an empty breadboard, plug in the leads from a couple of AA cells in a battery holder and there is your dev board powered up and running. Plug in your computer with an AXE027 lead, patch in whatever is your choice of peripherals and start writing the programs...what could be simpler with such capability? Are we not seeing the wood for the trees in this thread?

You and others seem to be in a different forest.

Read my #18 above.

Doesn't seem like RevEd is aimed for the one in every thermostat, washing machine and toaster market... I wonder what the reliability of an automomous vehicle controlled by a Nano might be... soon we'll find out...

Texasclodhopper said:

If by doing that, we also create a simple "DEV BOARD" that goes right into the final product then I see nothing but advantage.

Click to expand...

...and perhaps that is how I see the AXE201; ideal and simple for development and then goes straight into the final product.

You and others seem to be in a different forest.

Click to expand...

You have a point; it seems that there is little consensus of opinion on just what a "DEV BOARD" should look like or how it should be applied. I think that perhaps we are talking somewhat at cross purposes in the various comments.

Ah- a reminder that I'd merely asked if Rev.Ed is considering a release in the style of today's swag of insanely small, cheap & powerful gumstick sized "Dev. Board" offerings! Is that a YES? Do I hear NO? Perhaps MAYBE?

The enormous goodwill & user friendliness of Rev. Ed's platforms means any such Dev. Board should have great credibility beside "kitchen sink" start ups. Some of the latter have come & gone is under a year...

Progress has been so ruthless that the likes of the pictured 2013 era Wixel is auguably now perhaps already dated - it uses proprietary RF for starters. In 2015/16 onboard RF (standard 2.4 GHz WiFi or BT/BLE), micro USB linking/powering,versatile power supplies, microSD and smart I/Os are increasingly expected -as is (thankfully still ) DIP & breadboard friendliness.

THOUGHT: PICAXE path ahead pondering could/should consider how even their simplest 08M2 addresses emerging IoT (Internet of Things) expectations. With even schools e-projects increasingly web linking (via Thingspeak etc),this really merits factoring in I'd say.

Extra: I again mention that the inbuilt WiFi on Espressif's 2014 era ESP8266 (~US$3-$5 boarded) readily supports web linking, and that a fire breathing ESP32 enhancement is slanted for 2016 release.