UPS using rechargeable AAA's

ZOR

Senior Member
Has anyone seen any reference to UPS circuitry around rechargeable AAA batteries. I have seen reference to Lead Acid UPS, but the batteries have to be charged all their lives or become unchargeable, and phone batteries look unsafe unless strictly charged/controlled.

Just wanting 5 volts available as backup, something like a maximum of 2/300 ma for around 2 hours. Anybody been down this road?
 

eclectic

Moderator
Just a quick thought.

The "newer" AA (not AAA) have a much lower
self-discharge.

What about using say 6 or 7, with a regulator?

Or, 4 cells, if the 5V requirement isn't too strict.

Then change the cells say once a month.
 

JimPerry

Senior Member
What's the application? 2/300mA is a quite heavy load for AA's etc. Lithium based Powerbank system might be more suitable :confused:
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Most AA or AAA, NiCd or NiMH, UPS circuits I have seen simply float charge the batteries with low current ( C/10 or less ) similar to SLA. Beyond that you are into complex charging regimes using a micro controller or charger chips.

If this is for your alarm system it's probably easier just to use 12V SLA which are specified for float charged use.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks eclectic, my mistake, your right AA batteries. I would prefer having them under a charging circuit as the unit won't be always accessable.

Thanks Jim, however just worried about the stories of exploding/catching fire, needing careful charging. However I was contemplating maybe using an old mobile plugged into a dedicated charger wired out to my unit, lots of cheap mobiles out there. However if I can do something around a box of friendly AA's would be prefered. Looked around for a while but not found anything. Otherwise I will break up a commercial AA battery charger and use ADC to monitor voltages/charging although probably the longest way round
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks, but as I said I want to avoid using SLA which maybe I am wrong, use Lead Acid batteries. The alarm is only for a short time, when/while a house is unocupied. After which when the house gets sold the alarm won't get any use. I don't want to buy a battery that needs charging all the time, as when it's run down too far it won't charge again. The AA batteries will always find a use.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
How strange! Wonder what the answer is why.

Looks like nobody's coming back on the AA UPS. I had a high brightness torch as a present last year, and for a couple of months not using it forgot to charge it up. It's now useless, won't accept charging up so it's shot. So I don't want to go down the lead/acid route. Looks like I will study/breakup a commercial charger to use.
 

manuka

Senior Member

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
Thanks, but as I said I want to avoid using SLA which maybe I am wrong, use Lead Acid batteries. The alarm is only for a short time, when/while a house is unocupied. After which when the house gets sold the alarm won't get any use. I don't want to buy a battery that needs charging all the time, as when it's run down too far it won't charge again. The AA batteries will always find a use.
I think you need to detail exactly what this alarm is for, how it is to be used, and the full specification of what you want, particularly what role the battery supply plays.

Can you also explain why SLA batteries would be unacceptable. They are the most common means of providing battery backup for domestic and commercial alarm and UPS systems precisely because they are well suited to being backup supplies.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
ROSSKO57: Not on this one thanks!!!

Thanks manuka, I will look at that.

Thanks hippy, this alarm is a basic 5 volt PIR, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HC-SR501-Adjust-IR-Pyroelectric-Infrared-PIR-Motion-Sensor-Detector-Module-IDXX-/271727022507?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f443151ab

It's just a very basic make a loud noise if PIR disturbed a couple of times in a short time period, also phone out.

The reasons for not going down SLA route is the system is temporary, and when taken out I don't want to spend time remembering to charge a lead acid battery. (that's if SLA is lead acid)
 
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hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
The reasons for not going down SLA route is the system is temporary, and when taken out I don't want to spend time remembering to charge a lead acid battery. (that's if SLA is lead acid)
Yes, SLA is Sealed Lead Acid. I am not sure I am getting it because all rechargeable batteries have self-discharge and all would eventually succumb to a state where they may no longer charge.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks hippy, I read somewhere they need much more attention in being charged, I found this with a high brightness torch I was given. With it switched off I left it for a couple of months and that was it, gone beyond charging.

I just find it strange why so little if any information is out there for small battery (AA) battery UPS, when they have been around for a while, most common in projects, and numerous commercial chargers are out there.

(Charge lead acid before storing and monitor the voltage or specific gravity frequently; apply a boost if below 2.10V/cell or an SG below 1.225.)
 
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goom

Senior Member
My experience with SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries has been very positive. I have used them a lot in scale model boats. They have low self-discharge rates, and remain quite usable after 6 months "on the shelf", unlike my cheap NiMh AA cells which would be almost depleted after this time. Like many, I also have an SLA backup battery for my alarm system. This remains on constant float charge (13.2V I believe), and is good for about 5 years.
SLA's are readily available in 6V format in capacities of between 1.2Ah and 4.5Ah. A simple voltage regulator set at 6.6V would keep it fully charged.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks goom. I have been looking at SLA batteries and found them expensive (too expensive to write off on neglect) however just seen there are cheap 5 volts ones on Ebay. (5v 4.5ah, £6+) What worries me there are so many Chinese dodgy batteries out there, the last thing I need is a fire, something the insurance company would love to get out of paying for a house fire.
Whilst coming online there was a bang from my commercial battery charger and there was this unhappy AA battery with it's end blown off spitting gunge into the charger!
 

JimPerry

Senior Member
Virtually all commercial alarms use an SLA and a NiCad in external bell box - but are insurance approved when installed and maintained by a certified company - I'd be more concerned that a home-grown alarm system will be dismissed by any insurance company anyway. :rolleyes:
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Phone power source, 5.2 volts. Phone will be off until woken

Thanks Jim, I think an insurance company would be concerned if it was/is home grown. Insurance companies always look for ways out of paying, thats why I am trying to be safe.

Think I will just use a pile of AA batteries as eclectic suggested and call it a day.
 
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manuka

Senior Member
ZOR: Expensive? Most security firms have great stacks of "used" 12V SLAs that are considered mere scrap. These come from critical situations (banks etc) where the prospect of early failure can't be tolerated. Replacement is hence made as often as every 2 years!

Call by such a firm,perhaps with a few cooling ales on Friday afternoon, & they'll probably say help yourself- they otherwise may have to pay for their disposal. Most are classic 7Ah, but oddballs abound too.

Such rescued SLAs are still usually good for years of further light duty service. While teaching here in Wellington (NZ) I used to salvage stacks of them for "educational" use, often near overloading the car. Stan.

EXTRA:Chains of AA cells (either primary alkaline or secondary NiCd/NiMH) in series are prone to leakage,condensation & dirt on the terminals/contacts!! ARGH... This is a significant reason why modern outdoor solar security lamps no longer use multiple NiCd/NiMH. Most of us are long familiar with "tap the e-device" to reseat poor battery contacts! For 12V you'd also annoyingly need 8 x 1.5V or 10 x 1.2V, while LiFePO4 would give this with just 4 cells (4 x 3.2V=12.8V). Fewer cells mean a more compact enclosure too.

With modern "3V" circuitry 3 x 1.2V NiCd/NiMH (=3.6V) can be replaced with just a single ~3.6V LiIon/LiPoly or (arguably better) robust leakproof 3.2V LiFePO4. The latter additionally offers far longer cycle life (1000s rather than 100s) & negligible self discharge. Although still quite new (even compared with Li-Ion), single AA LiFePO4 solar charged systems (security & wireless etc) I've had running outdoors for several years haven't missed a beat.
 

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ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks manuka for your input. I seem to be moving towards the 3.2v LiFePO4, very attractive performance. I think if I can find a reliable circuit to charge/monitor/supply 6.4v to a regulator then I am there. Will look back on the early posting in this thread to see what information is there. Thanks again, have a good weekend
 

rossko57

Senior Member
I understand why you're avoiding SLA - it might be the technology of choice for fixed installs, but your requirement for essentially occasional use isn't the same.
Why aren't you tapping into the phone battery? This comes with a charger that can be left on forever, doesn't it? With careful design, your picaxe + PIR should NOT be consuming 200mA.
 

ZOR

Senior Member
Thanks, yes I wondered if that could be done, maybe the best idea, thanks.

Don't know as yet what power will go into noise maker bit. Regards
 
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