Making a breadboard circuit more permanent.

Hi!

I've just discovered that Protostak have released a new 'small' prototype board.

I have used their larger one's before with great success, but this new smaller board looks like it would be great for those simple circuits. I've just placed an order for some.

Best part is that they are almost an exact replica of your breadboard, which should make transferring the circuit easy!

http://www.protostack.com/boards/prototyping/prototyping-board-small-style-1

Steven.

If you can still find the "KIWI " circuit boards, then you have a board for a picaxe chip with a on board voltage regulator, and a section for breadboard assembly, basically a very good universal PCB in my view, for a picaxe proto type board, pitty they have seem to disapear from the general market.

@austfox - thanks for this ref - I've used some Radio Shack boards that don't look as good!

These are great protoboards for a mixture of SMT and through hole,

http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/protox-standard-worlds-best-prototype-shield-for-xino-and-all-arduino-type-boards/

In the U.S. Adafruit has some nice proto boards with a similar layout to breadboards. They also have ones that fit in Altoids (mints) tins.

Thanks for the alert austfox. Kiwi Patch Boards are certainly still going great guns here in NZ, but I recall Aust. distribution became an issue due to shipping & retail markups (apparently ~Aust$7 each). At one stage the official PICAXE agent Wiltronics was handling them however.

These Protostacks are very keenly priced,with great specs. Jaycar offer similar (which I'd considered in a recent "boxed" SiChip article & Instructable), but they're in cringing Paxolin & without silk screening or PTH etc. There's really no comparison & these protostacks are sure to appeal educationally. Stan.

I bought some protostack boards a while ago. They are well made quality boards, I like the layout, and even shipped to the US the price was OK. I just wish they had chosen a different soldermask because it's not easy to see the tracks on the backside

Agreed - a visual pain with their larger sized board(s)! However,with less real estate to distract, unlikely to be such an issue with this new smaller version.

THOUGHT: WestAust55 may like to rustle up a PEBBLE layout? Although the existing 23R KiwiBoard option near suits, it doesn't include pins for the valuable stackable headers.

Its a pitty the Kiwiboard is not better supported by the picaxe public, as it truly is a great universal board for picaxe prototype projects.

I understand Rev_ed wants to sell thier own boards, but i feel the Rev_ed boards are not as universal as the Kiwiboard.

I fail to see why Rev_ed would design a general board without the option to add a on board voltage regulator, thats just a poor design to me for a universal board.

Does anyone know who sells the kiwi patch boards in Australia. Or is there company that charges a reasonable postage from NZ. I cant seem to find them when I search on google.

Kiwi Patch Boards (KPB) were largely the ~2008 brainpower of Kiwi Andrew "Brightspark", but are/were handled by NZ firm Kent Electronics (KEI). The boards were produced in China,but KEI (who were known to be focusing on medical electronics) just may have let KPB distribution lapse. Google doesn't find KEI now- best I make a few local calls & check.

I've a swag here that are "free to a good home", but small order postage costs to Oz. can be an issue. To ease the p&p pain I linked KEI & Wiltronics & the latter certainly intended stocking them. However there's no mention at their site...

AFAIK the design was copyleft so someone may care to contact the Chinese outlet take up production themselves. I have to say however that the new Protostack layout,features,stackable header prospects & much lower price may make them superior. Stan.

Update: KEI have apparently renamed themselves QSM & their site indicates a quality control & project management focus. It's Sunday here in NZ so a phone call to them will have to wait until tomorrow.

I found kiwis here http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/2725-kiwi-patch-board

Surplustronics indeed handle Kiwi Boards, but they only cater within NZ & will NOT ship offshore (due to destination customs & high p&p).

I've just had a phone chat with Barry Kent of QSM & he confirms ongoing KPB availability but also laments Australian outlets have fallen over.

THOUGHT: Anyone in Aus. fancy setting themselves up as a local KPB distributor? I'd mention this in SiChip articles to aid promotion. Barry would let you have wholesale bulk prices, so you'd probably be able to clear a few $ per board. Even then however your time & p&p within Aus. may be an issue... Stan.

No one then? Perhaps time to reconsider something I came up with in 2013-

Numerous simple designs rarely justify a large board,& modern circuitry increasingly suits a 3V supply. Hence perhaps ponder the merits of a 20x10 "thumb" board that fits inside a partially gutted battery box , either a 3 (1 x LiFePO4) or 4 (2 x AA) type ?

Todays hi tech is laughably cheap, but end user expectations of a professional looking product are high. It's the boring but essential "finishing off" things in electronics (switches,cases,rubber feet,screws,labels) that often cost serious money!

A few tip from someone who have been prototyping Uh... many years.

get a good temperature controlled iron.
and experiment with tips of high quality. My favourite is a oval (circular but cut at angle) with concave front surface. they are rare, but the bennefit is that they capillarily suck back solder so you can with same tip solder big joints and also small wire-to pin (see below) and SMT.
get the best solder (my favourite is almit SR-37 48S)
good solder wick (I use chemtronics)
get thin kapton insulated wires for interconnection (easy to strip and resist solder heat) EDIT: PVDF insulation, i.e Pro Power 100-30W, farnell 143382. /EDIT
use prototyping boards with no copper traces, just rings around the holes, through plated.
use wires to "make traces" anyhow you like. You can on such board also connect diagonally.
do not be afraid of surface mount components. i.e 0603 resistors between two holes, decoupling cap between the two traces for + and - , SOT23 turned so pins land as you like, on SOIC bend even pins up and connect by thin wires.

By not being locked to the layout of a prototype board or "solderless breadboard" connections, it is much faster to think and lay out, it will much more resemble the drawing you made, it will be more compact and have better performance. Also it is easy to use thick conductors to handle very high current.

I will never go back to clumsy breadboards.

For best flexibility for prototyping and tests use a completely copper free perforated board and bend component wires and use thin tinned copper wires. This make for very easy layout and component change, just use the tip of the soldering iron to disconnect. Density can be good; one or two wires between DIL legs is not impossible. Very good for SMT/through hole combo. For heavy components and connectors, use a plier to wrap the tinned wire one turn around the pin close to the board before soldering.

If you want to prototype a SMT layout, draw/print in scale 1:1, affix a heat resistent double side tape, lay out copper traces by thin wires (my favourite is silver plated 0,1 mm wires from a stripped multistrand PTFE wire), then solder components on top of that.

@Morganl - could you give a more specific description or reference to where I might find heat resistant double sided tape? I am not familiar with any product that will stand much heat... thanks...

Morgani: Each to their own- you seem very experienced! FWIW (as an experienced educator) I've long found learners better understand circuitry when it's FIRST "top side" breadboarded & tamed.

Rushing in & blindly soldering up a PCB leads to ignorance about the circuit action & lamentable soldering blunders. Let's keep in mind soldering is a craft in it's own right & hot iron skills can take AGES to gain. Even such a simple tweak as changing a LED dropping resistor may be near impossible on a soldered PCB for learners. Reworking may so damage components & PCB pads/tracks that the whole lot may be just junked. SOLDERING SHOULD BE THE VERY LAST STEP !

I recall the productivity boost when breadboards arrived (& replaced T-Decs etc) in the 1970s. Students often did more (& UNDERSTOOD!) in half an hour with a breadboard than they'd managed in 1/2 a day with soldered approaches. Components could be quickly reused in later designs too- an important issue back then when many parts were costly!

KIWI PATCH BOARDS: Good news! Following some arm twisting (from me), Auckland (NZ) firm Surplustronics have agreed to handle offshore KiwiBoard orders ! However payment will need to be via PayPal, and p&p may justify more than a single board order. Contact them via email to discuss- they will ship weekly via DHL global mail so it wont be express unless extra is paid. They also handle Dorji 433 MHz modules & may be open to supplying these elsewhere too.

My good deed for the day - Stan.

Pongo said:

I just wish they had chosen a different soldermask because it's not easy to see the tracks on the backside

Click to expand...

My boards arrived today.

One thing is for certain, they are a top quality board.

Granted, the tracks on the underside are hard to see, but I only solder on this side, and do all components locating from the topside.

@premelec: the tape i use is 3M Scotch VHB "Very High Bond" It consist of just the adhesive, about 0,3 mm thick i believe and very flexible. It is not marketed as high temperature but i had it over from another project and got used to it. I also tried kapton tapes which are good at high temperature but adhesive is thin so the wires do not stick (in)to it as good.

@manuka: well i started when I was nine, and now I am 5 times older... absolutely, there are many different methods, for different skills and application. I have also worked as a teacher in "technology" 7-9th grade and high scool, and adult school. My expereince is that the less copper the solder sticks to the easier it is to fix solder blobs between, and correct other mistakes. And develop, play, and extend. The completely copper less perforated boards are the easiest to solder when using discretes and not making them dense. Put in resistor, bend wire, cut, solder. Oh!? wrong place or component? Desolder easily, remove/replace/bend to other joint. They are also very easy to cut using just a plier. And inexpensive, and pupils can take it home.

As first excercise pupils hammer small wide head copper or brass nails in wood pieces, and solder on top, like i had drawn on blackboard. Example: the 2 transistor bistable multivibrator with LEDs.
(I even tried that method on a prototype with 4 logic ICc and many discretes and it worked until connected to the machine it should control... Large loops = EMI sensitive. )
They also made cheap "experiment leads" by soldering a wire between two small metal paper clips, ant the clips fit the component legs or wires between nails (or nails if they are long), or to connect extra components while testing.

I prefer staying away from the solder less breadboard as it introduce a step to rethink the wiring from the logical drawing to something that fits the breadboard, and forcing a clumsier and worse EMC/EMI/Power wise solution, and i think it is not a good habit. IMO it is better to use that time and thinking effort to understand the cirquitry, and practice on soldering it up.

Soldering is quick and fun, my 5 year old daughter makes nice looking solderings. She recently made a necklace.
A soldering iron is not more dangerous than a pair of scissors, but with adult around.
My 7 year old son soldered a couple RevEd picaxe boards we are going to play with soon, together with some handcrafted extensions as per above methods.
(It is mainly because of educating my children I showed up here, but I plan to use picaxe for some prototyping as well)
But i will also introduce them to solderless breadboards, and other techniques of course

I forgot to tell about the nice very thin enamelled wires that de-insulates when you put the soldering tip to them.

BTW, If someone happens to see a breadbord with 1,27 x 2 mm grid, PM me!

I'm interested in "packaging techniques" and soldering breadboards that don't have land patterns. Are you aware of reference documents that would show packaging techniques, and using pattern-less boards? I'd appreciate any links that you will share. Thank you,
Jims

I think a lot has to do with habit - I started quite young with solder after various springs and clips that were available before the solderless breadboards-which I have never liked - too much obscured below the top where the holes are. I have done a lot of fast mock up free form soldering with dead bug style and terminal strip style [like nails in board but posts in ceramic strips]. Whatever works and burnt fingertips heal... [and I've hand drawn resist PCBs - trick is to drill holes through paper grid pattern first - then ink to the holes before etch].

premelec said:

[and I've hand drawn resist PCBs - trick is to drill holes through paper grid pattern first - then ink to the holes before etch].

Click to expand...

Me too, my version of the trick is to just pock mark the board through the paper pattern (e.g. with a fine point scriber and toffee hammer), paint, etch, and then drill.

austfox said:

My boards arrived today.

One thing is for certain, they are a top quality board.

Granted, the tracks on the underside are hard to see, but I only solder on this side, and do all components locating from the topside.

Click to expand...

I guess it's what you become used too, I'm historically a free form stripboard user which causes me to pay close attention to the backside tracks 'cause I have to cut them.

jims said:

I'm interested in "packaging techniques" and soldering breadboards that don't have land patterns. Are you aware of reference documents that would show packaging techniques, and using pattern-less boards? I'd appreciate any links that you will share. Thank you,
Jims

Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay, not been here for a while.
I attach a scan of a board i recently made to upgrade a customers device.
Space was very limited and some components need to be at other side, some here...
Larger photo: Down at right there are two SOT23 3 pin devices, and between them a SOT323.
They are easily laid out like i had drawn the solution on a piece of paper.

The SOT23 are "microcontroller reset IC:s" but they are here used for checking and sequencing power. (they have good voltage ref, shmidt-trigger comparator and delay inside, and push-pull out. Pretty much for a buc and three pin soldering . Also simple FET like 2N7000 or similar often save a resistor. sometimes the "digital transistors" (NPN or PNP plus one or two R ina SOT23 or SOT323 package) is even better as they do not need pull down. There is a much larger range of components avaialble as SMT than through-hole.

Easy to solder: fill a hole with tin, grab the component with a plier and put it to that tin while melting it again.

On the other side are some 0603 and 0805, they easily fit between two pads. The SO8 is a FET with only 6 milliohms R. It is most ofte a good idea to use "over sized" semicondictors so they are cooler, so overall size and cost incl work actually get lower, plus more dobust.

The thin wires are enamelled wires of a type that the enamel melts when soldering to the end. Very convenient.
Routing, rerouting, and high signal density is easy wuth these.

If you need tens of amperes, use large wires, and also in this case it beats etched designs easily. (for one offs opr a few that is...)

On through plated boards I often mount "through-hole components" like SMT too - not sticking them through board holes make it much easier to change value or completely alter the design.
______________________

However, inspired by seeing other protoboards in this thread i went shopping:
http://www.ebay.com/cln/morganlej/Protoboards/96229069011

I especially like this one currently top left on the link i gave:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Proto-PCB-69-x-50mm-w-452-Pad-SMT-Green-5pcs/331153410014?hash=item4d1a4807de
because in a very efficient way you can mount either DIL or SOIC or SOT23-3 on the same spot, plus it have hole triples connected to those connections, plus power strips.
And decent price. I just wish it had better provision for screw connections, but it is easy to drill between each 2 holes. But note this board is only 1 mm thick, so use one-peace blocks of many poles.


I also like this http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/531381 1,27 + 2,54 raster. Despite the high cost i like itbecause the holes are pretty big so the 1,27 mm raster area accept normal small through hole components like 1/8 W resistors, TO92 etc, and the 2,54 raster accept screw connectors. The one i recieved is 1 mm thick, not 0,7 as the catalog say.

One last tip: 3,5 mm spaced screw and jackable screw conectors suit diagonally a 2,54 mm raster.