PICAXE Editor 6 beta

New software!

Thanks Rev Ed!


Taking a look at the software the biggest thing I'm not liking about it is how so many of the functions now need more clicks to reach.

eg in the PWMOUT Wizard there are dropdown boxes for the settings, meaning having to click on the dropdown box, wait for it to appear (it's not instant) and then click again the selection you want, whereas on the old editor all the options are displayed at once and each one only takes a single click (with no waiting at all) to select. Now I can understand the need for dropdown boxes for some settings, eg just about all the ones in the ERF Wizard that have many selections, but not when there are only say 4 to choose from.

And accessing the pdf datasheet files isn't a logical two-step process anymore, on the old editor it was simply Help menu and then select the pdf you want to view, now you have to go to the File tab then Help and then the pdf you want to view, but now the main editor window has gone so you have to click the Home tab to get back. I notice the "More datasheets..." goes to a web address, perhaps this should be moved down to the "Online:" section.

I like the customizable Quick Access Toolbar but the icons are too small IMHO, can we have our own customizable Ribbon Toolbar? With the ability to include pdf links?

Screen capture of the blurry simulation pane image:

Haku said:

And accessing the pdf datasheet files isn't a logical two-step process anymore, on the old editor it was simply Help menu and then select the pdf you want to view, now you have to go to the File tab then Help and then the pdf you want to view, but now the main editor window has gone so you have to click the Home tab to get back. I notice the "More datasheets..." goes to a web address, perhaps this should be moved down to the "Online:" section.

Click to expand...

Click on the question mark top of screen far right, then select the manual you want.

I agree that some if the clickable symbols are far too small, perhaps the developers have very large high definition screens and young eyes ?

Thanks for the feedback.

Haku said:

eg in the PWMOUT Wizard there are dropdown boxes for the settings, meaning having to click on the dropdown box, wait for it to appear (it's not instant) and then click again the selection you want, whereas on the old editor all the options are displayed at once and each one only takes a single click (with no waiting at all) to select. Now I can understand the need for dropdown boxes for some settings, eg just about all the ones in the ERF Wizard that have many selections, but not when there are only say 4 to choose from.

Click to expand...

All Wizards in PE6 are external (separate applications) so they can be more simply modified, added to and maintained. Therefore they do take a little longer to start, as you are starting a completely separate application. However on the plus side you can then keep it open the whole time, even when using PE6 for something else, which you couldn't do in PE5. Open once and then <alt><tab> between the two applications.

There are very big architectural changes in PE6. Once of these is that the parameters for those drop boxes (e.g. which pins PWM is supported on or which frequencies are supported) coming from a separate external PICAXE configuration file. So although a 20X2 may only show 2 pwm pins in the drop down, other parts may show many more. The use of a drop down allows this versatility, so that, for instance, other chips with more pwm pins can be instantly supported as opposed to 'hard coding' the wizard to each and every chip type (which is not a future-proof system and hence very time consuming to maintain).

Haku said:

And accessing the pdf datasheet files isn't a logical two-step process anymore, on the old editor it was simply Help menu and then select the pdf you want to view, now you have to go to the File tab then Help and then the pdf you want to view, but now the main editor window has gone so you have to click the Home tab to get back. I notice the "More datasheets..." goes to a web address, perhaps this should be moved down to the "Online:" section.

Click to expand...

That's just the way ribbon's work. You can use the Help button top right.
Another trick is to link the PICAXE manual PDFs within your Workspace Explorer PDF links and then it is a simple single click to open them.
And the F1 quick syntax is improved with PE6, put the cursor with a keyword (e.g. high) and press F1.

Haku said:

I like the customizable Quick Access Toolbar but the icons are too small IMHO, can we have our own customizable Ribbon Toolbar?

Click to expand...

Again that is just standard ribbon behaviour for you, e.g. Word 2010 or Excel work exactly the same, and also have the same industry standard 16x16 pixel button size in the QAT to fit within the title bar height.

Haku said:

With the ability to include pdf links?

Click to expand...

That's what the workspace explorer is for, simply add the PDF file to your workspace via the + button and then it will be permanently linked within your workspace.

srnet said:

I agree that some if the clickable symbols are far too small, perhaps the developers have very large high definition screens and young eyes ?

Click to expand...

They are all industry standard 16x16 icons.

Technical said:

They are all industry standard 16x16 icons.

Click to expand...

So change them to the 'industry standard' 24x24 or 32x32 icons.

The problem with doing that is you only end up with 4 or 5 buttons actually visible at a time.

I used PE6 yesterday, albeit to erase a chip, its great to have the clear function and it worked perfect.

Not breaking ground stuff in the scope of PE6, but was a handy too to have.

I was not able to find where you can do a firmware check in PE6, to see if it erased that too.

I was a little concerned if clear reverted the chip to a raw pic, but can confirm it did except a picaxe download after the clear, so its just a code erase (perhaps better explained in the hover box as a code erase only)

I also can confirm PE6 is as slow as a wet week to load, and why do it say "Installing" when its already installed, then other times it opens quickly (as i would expect it to) if i have previously had PE6 open.
Not sure if its a bug, too early to tell, but worth watching to see if others have the same quirk.

Overall its a good step forward with PE6, and grizzles and dislikes will always be aired, although it just as important to confirm functions as we use them, so they can be crossed off the list.

SAborn said:

I was not able to find where you can do a firmware check in PE6, to see if it erased that too.

Click to expand...

Underneath where you set PICAXE type in the Workspace Explorer.
Or on Options>Compilers
There is no way to ever erase the PICAXE bootstrap (without using a third party programmer), so rest assured there won't be a menu item to do that!

SAborn said:

I also can confirm PE6 is as slow as a wet week to load, and why do it say "Installing" when its already installed, then other times it opens quickly (as i would expect it to) if i have previously had PE6 open.

Click to expand...

This is an installer issue that has already been fixed for the next release. The 'open more quickly the second time' is just a characteristic of .Net programs under Windows due to their JIT operation..

Technical said:

All Wizards in PE6 are external (separate applications) so they can be more simply modified, added to and maintained. Therefore they do take a little longer to start, as you are starting a completely separate application. However on the plus side you can then keep it open the whole time, even when using PE6 for something else, which you couldn't do in PE5. Open once and then <alt><tab> between the two applications.

Click to expand...

Hats off to that. I copied this into the folder in which the wizards are stored and it appeared in the PICAXE Editor Wizards menu, complete with its correct icon.

According to Task Manager, the PICAXE Editor informs the wizard of the PICAXE in question by specifying an XML file for that PICAXE e.g. C:\Program Files (x86)\Revolution Education\PICAXE Editor\PICAXE\PICAXE-20X2.xml, plus it also specifies the COM port in use.

It's not Technical's fault that the wizards have a delay before appearing - blame that on the bloatware that is the Microsoft .NET Framework which they (Microsoft) are virtually forcing on developers. My 'Extra PICAXE Wizards' application is also affected by that, in fact even more so because it has all its wizards in a single executable.

Technical said:

All Wizards in PE6 are external (separate applications) so they can be more simply modified, added to and maintained. Therefore they do take a little longer to start, as you are starting a completely separate application. However on the plus side you can then keep it open the whole time, even when using PE6 for something else, which you couldn't do in PE5. Open once and then <alt><tab> between the two applications.

Click to expand...

This also takes away the function of the PWMOUT Wizard to directly copy the generated command into your code, meaning more hoops to jump through as you have to click away the confirmation window the text was copied into clipboard, then go to your code and manually paste the generated command in.

Technical said:

There are very big architectural changes in PE6. Once of these is that the parameters for those drop boxes (e.g. which pins PWM is supported on or which frequencies are supported) coming from a separate external PICAXE configuration file. So although a 20X2 may only show 2 pwm pins in the drop down, other parts may show many more. The use of a drop down allows this versatility, so that, for instance, other chips with more pwm pins can be instantly supported as opposed to 'hard coding' the wizard to each and every chip type (which is not a future-proof system and hence very time consuming to maintain).

Click to expand...

Was there no way of having the ability to have radio buttons instead of endless dropdown boxes, even when there are only 2 options to select from?

Technical said:

That's just the way ribbon's work. You can use the Help button top right.
Another trick is to link the PICAXE manual PDFs within your Workspace Explorer PDF links and then it is a simple single click to open them.
And the F1 quick syntax is improved with PE6, put the cursor with a keyword (e.g. high) and press F1.

Click to expand...

Saying that's just the way they work feels like you're handing over the cause of the problem to something else. I did see you can add the pdf manuals to the PDF Files section but won't that entail having to manually add them every time you start a new workspace?
I thought the top right question mark button would bring a simple drop-down menu like the old editor, not switch the whole screen to the Help and Support page. I don't much like this shift away from drop-down menus. I do like the Quick Syntax when you press F1 over a command, but can we have it so pressing Space/Enter/Esc will close the window?

Technical said:

Again that is just standard ribbon behaviour for you, e.g. Word 2010 or Excel work exactly the same, and also have the same industry standard 16x16 pixel button size in the QAT to fit within the title bar height.

Click to expand...

It may be industry standard but it doesn't mean we have to like it. Can we have our own customizable ribbon?


When you do a Syntax Check of the code and there are no errors you can press Space/Enter/Esc to close the confirmation window, but when there's an error you have to move the mouse to click the OK button, can that OK button be pre-selected like the no-errors confirmation window? It would help streamline things when all your fingers are already over the keyboard.

PWMOUT Wizard is missing C.3 from the pin option of 20M2.

Hope someone won't get angry with me, but being still very green with Picaxe, I downloaded the new editor. Looks quite a big learning curve! I was pleased the old version had not been removed for me to go back. Looks like it's a lot more comprehensive, but for a newcomer it's daunting. Will the old version be dropped?

Technical said:

Again that is just standard ribbon behaviour for you, e.g. Word 2010 or Excel work exactly the same, and also have the same industry standard 16x16 pixel button size in the QAT to fit within the title bar height.

Click to expand...

Your ribbon's not 'standard' though, is it? After this was posted:

Haku said:

It may be industry standard but it doesn't mean we have to like it. Can we have our own customizable ribbon?

Click to expand...

I decided to try changing the size of the title bars in Windows to see if the icons would become larger, and also checked Microsoft Word to see if it did it too.

In Microsoft Word and in Paint, the size of the title bar and minimize/maximize/close buttons increased but the icons stayed small.

In PICAXE Editor, the size of the title bar stayed the same, the icons stayed the same size, but the minimize/maximize/close buttons did become large like they did in Microsoft Word.

This shows that the Ribbon is not identical to that in Microsoft applications.

ZOR said:

Will the old version be dropped?

Click to expand...

I just checked the published file, PE6.PDF;

"PE5 will be bug maintained for a changeover period until 2015. However no new features or
new PICAXE parts will be added to PE5 in the future."

Thanks srnet, that's good. I will spend that time trying to get to speed. I liked the PE5 editor as it's logically designed. The PE6 opens with so many things on view it's not so easy to immediately understand, however when one knows what it all does then will the benefits be realized.

In my opinion this is a real improvement over the previous version. I have not found any serious bugs (but have not yet searched for them either) but I see a few small improvement possibilities that I want to mention since the current implementation is so close:

1. Code Explorer: This is a significantly changed version that gets more close to what I think it should be. I would strongly recommend to take the implementation one small step further though, which is relevant when developing larger and more complex programs. In such cases you always come to the point where you will need to reuse a variable (for example b0) for different purposes (which has always been possible by assigning different names to a single register by multiple symbol statements). It would be a fantastic feature for code checking / debugging to have ALL defined names (called symbols) for a given variable to be listed in the code explorer window. Currently PE 6 only lists the last encountered name for a given symbol name declaration in a syntax scan.

2. Beginners-friendly view: Here I can feel with ZOR, I can imagine that for beginners PE 6 looks very complex, basically since per default a lot of information is exposed which actually should be avoided, having a class room environment in mind. I would suggest the following two steps:
- a: By default have the Workspace Explorer, Simulation window, Code Explorer and Memory Map UNpinned, providing a much calmer view to start with. One can still pop up a window by selecting it from the side.
- b: The Home ribbon should be the one that is sufficient for all basic operations (for example in a class room environment) and the one that one spends 95% of its time on. To make the Home ribbon complete in such a sense I would suggest to add the Program button after the syntax check button; it becomes then very similar to the original PE toolbar which I found very clear in use when explaining to teachers the basic steps needed to develop a working application.

So far from my side,
Best regards,
Jurjen Kranenborg
http://www.kranenborg.org/electronics

1) Look for the variable clash button on the code explorer toolbar after doing the syntax check
2a) Unpin them and they will then be like that next time you start
2b) You can use the QAT to add a program button if you wish, but we can consider this

When 'Technical' posted notification of the new Editor he suggested that we should not clog up the forum with 'issues', rather address them direct to Support, I am not sure where this message fits in the scheme of things!

I have played with the editor for a couple of hours on and off today and its obviously a vast improvement. Its quite a bit different and I will probably learn my way round it in time. So far it has sent off about 4 error reports, probably caused by me clicking something that I should not clicked. I've no idea how support will be able to benefit from the errors I can imagine a big build-up error logs will take time to sort out.

I programmed and reprogrammed am 08M several times without knowing whether it had worked, I then spotted the progress bar which seems much less conspicuous than in PE5.

I have not yet grasped the concept of 'workspace' and its files but I am sure it will come to me, whatever it is.

So far the simulator has defeated me, setting breakpoints is fiddly, but I cannot find how to setup the i/o pins of the chip image so they are remembered after starting and stopping the simulation.

The main point of this post is to ask whether a user manual or a 'Help' file for the editor exists? or if one is planned. I work alone and not in an educational environment so have no tutor to turn to and would really like to improve on the trial and error method of learning the ropes.

Ian

Haku said:

Saying that's just the way they work feels like you're handing over the cause of the problem to something else. I did see you can add the pdf manuals to the PDF Files section but won't that entail having to manually add them every time you start a new workspace?
I thought the top right question mark button would bring a simple drop-down menu like the old editor, not switch the whole screen to the Help and Support page. I don't much like this shift away from drop-down menus.

Click to expand...

We fully appreciate not everyone likes ribbons, which is exactly why the legacy toolbar/menu mode is still available. You can use either. However the ribbon interface has become pretty standard across most modern applications.

Haku said:

Can we have our own customizable ribbon?

Click to expand...

No, its simply not technically viable. Its like asking to be able to choose your own File/Edit menus in legacy mode

Haku said:

When you do a Syntax Check of the code and there are no errors you can press Space/Enter/Esc to close the confirmation window, but when there's an error you have to move the mouse to click the OK button, can that OK button be pre-selected like the no-errors confirmation window? It would help streamline things when all your fingers are already over the keyboard.

Click to expand...

Yes, we can look into that.

Haku said:

PWMOUT Wizard is missing C.3 from the pin option of 20M2.

Click to expand...

We'll look into that too.

elanman99 said:

Its quite a bit different and I will probably learn my way round it in time. So far it has sent off about 4 error reports, probably caused by me clicking something that I should not clicked. I've no idea how support will be able to benefit from the errors I can imagine a big build-up error logs will take time to sort out.

Click to expand...

Actually its a fully automated system and tells us exactly where the issue is, and once decrypted at our end it even tells us the line number in our source code, and how many people have had that issue. For us it is great, we can fix things much quicker. The update today already had a couple of fixes as a direct response to the automated emails.

elanman99 said:

I programmed and reprogrammed am 08M several times without knowing whether it had worked, I then spotted the progress bar which seems much less conspicuous than in PE5.

Click to expand...

This change was a direct response to quite a lot of customer feedback about the way PE5 programmed. Once you are used to it we think you will find it ok.

elanman99 said:

setting breakpoints is fiddly

Click to expand...

Click in the left margin to set the 'flag'

elanman99 said:

but I cannot find how to setup the i/o pins of the chip image so they are remembered after starting and stopping the simulation.

Click to expand...

It doesn't at present. Any particular reason you wanted to do that?

elanman99 said:

The main point of this post is to ask whether a user manual or a 'Help' file for the editor exists?

Click to expand...

PICAXE Manual 1 has already been partially updated (click the Help in PE6), but more documentation is also on the way.

Technical said:

Actually its a fully automated system and tells us exactly where the issue is, and once decrypted at our end it even tells us the line number in our source code, and how many people have had that issue. For us it is great, we can fix things much quicker. The update today already had a couple of fixes as a direct response to the automated emails.

This change was a direct response to quite a lot of customer feedback about the way PE5 programmed. Once you are used to it we think you will find it ok.

Click in the left margin to set the 'flag'

It doesn't at present. Any particular reason you wanted to do that?

PICAXE Manual 1 has already been partially updated (click the Help in PE6), but more documentation is also on the way.

Click to expand...

In the same order,

That is a really satisfying reply, knowing that something is happening behind the scenes is effectively 'continuous product improvement', Brilliant!

Yes, now I have found it, its not a problem.

I can set breakpoints but it seems to need very careful cursor positioning (with no clearly defined zone) on my 22" monitor. Better would be if say, the line number highlighted when the cursor could activate the function.

On the old simulator, I could set and change the state of the input pins on the graphic before I ran the simulation. I will do some more experimenting to see if I have missed something obvious.

I tried help which took me to what I thought were the usual Picaxe PDFs, I see now that Number 1 at least has been updated.

Ian

I too am struggling with breakpoints.

The little flag sets OK, but disappears as soon as I click 'Run' or 'Syntax check'.

What am I doing wrong ?

Nothing, that looks like a recently introduced issue! They used to work fine, so we'll have to see what has changed!
You can workaround the issue in the beta by adding the breakpoint after the simulation has started.
Right click on the simulate Run button to start in step mode and then add the breakpoint.

'Background serial receive can not yet be simulated.'

Not a big loss at the moment, but it would be nice if PE just ignored it, instead of preventing the simulation from running.

In post #33 ( http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?24778-PICAXE-Editor-6-beta&p=249449&viewfull=1#post249449 ) there was a report of a cut & paste error, and no way to undo the deletion.

I just had similar, but I don't think it's as bad as was made out.

To test, highlight some text, then press a character key.
The text is replaced by the character as expected, but the undo on the toolbar is now greyed out.

However, right-click to get the context menu, and the undo from there works.

When the simulator is active, in 'running' or in 'break', the Quick Action Toolbar is not visible, which rather negates it's quickness !

Version is 6.0.5.3

Buzby said:

The text is replaced by the character as expected, but the undo on the toolbar is now greyed out.

Click to expand...

Please uninstall all beta versions via Control Panel then reinstall the latest one. Your QAT undo will then react correctly.
In general when working with betas it is always better to uninstall first rather than upgrade over the top of the last one.

OK, will do tomorrow.

On a general note, PE6 is looking good !.

PE6 is leaving lots of .ppp files in my "C:\Documents and Settings\......\Local Settings\Temp" folder.

Will these disappear by themselves ?

No - but you can delete them!

Buzby said:

PE6 is leaving lots of .ppp files in my "C:\Documents and Settings\......\Local Settings\Temp" folder.

Will these disappear by themselves ?

Click to expand...

Hi,
I just read the following in the notes and was wondering if somebody could shed any light on the subject?
Remote download feature for compiled programs (Windows/Mac/Linux/Android)

What are ppp files?

If PEV6 beta is generating "lots of .ppp" files in a particular place (and I have to take your word for it) then maybe V6 release should offer a tidy-up option.


Minor aside: For a few people I hope it is obvious as .ppp is the same file extension as used by the (fairly) popular Serif Pageplus desktop publisher.

When the simulator is active, in 'running' or in 'break', the Quick Action Toolbar is not visible, which rather negates it's quickness !

Click to expand...

I un-installed the two betas, re-installed .NET 3.5 SP1, re-installed PE 6.0.5.3, but still my QAT is not there when simulating.

Does anyone else have the same issue ?

During a simulation all editing features (e.g. File backstage and Home/PICAXE tabs) are disabled (as the source file is locked during the simulation and cannot be edited), so only the Simulation tab is available.
So it is correct behaviour that the QAT is also disabled during simulation.

.ppp files are currently for beta testing purposes.

rjandsam said:

Hi,
Remote download feature for compiled programs (Windows/Mac/Linux/Android)

Click to expand...

The full release (not current beta) will allow the export of a 'compiled image' version of your PICAXE BASIC, so that it can be passed to a third party for download without releasing your BASIC source program. The third party can then download it via a simple (separate application) download tool.

This is only indirectly related to PE6 and it is something that might be addressed when the Editor documentation is updated but its difficult to use/see Manual 1 PDF and I dont know whether it general or due to my PDF viewer. (I use PDF Xchange)

The pages of the document have very wide margins, even if I view at 100% its hard to see any detail on the screendump images (I now know there is no detail anyway) but unless I have the viewer maximised even the text is wishy washy as so much of the screen area is wasted.

With the shortcut links (document outline) enabled which is what RevEd recommend, the page body text gets even smaller.

Ian

Technical said:

Please uninstall all beta versions via Control Panel then reinstall the latest one. Your QAT undo will then react correctly.
In general when working with betas it is always better to uninstall first rather than upgrade over the top of the last one.

Click to expand...

I know I can see what version I an running but 'check for updates' only really shows one release (and no dates) so was your advice about working with 'betas' just a general comment?

As an aside, after installing PE6 it does not appear in 'all programs' (XP SP3) and it does not install a desktop shortcut, that's quite unusual.

Ian

All Programs > Revolution Education > PICAXE Editor 6.
Installing a desktop icon seems to annoy people, if past feedback is anything to go on!
If updating any beta we recommend uninstalling first.

elanman99 said:

(I use PDF Xchange)

Click to expand...

Have you tried another reader e.g. Acrobat Reader?

Technical said:

All Programs > Revolution Education > PICAXE Editor 6.
Installing a desktop icon seems to annoy people, if past feedback is anything to go on!
If updating any beta we recommend uninstalling first.

Click to expand...

Certainly sprinkling the whole machine with shortcuts without asking is very annoying, but having to look for the exe file is at the other end of the spectrum. I only mention it because I created a second shortcut to PE5 because it was the first Picaxe editor exe I found in \Windows\programmes\..

Ian

elanman99 said:

As an aside, after installing PE6 it does not appear in 'all programs' (XP SP3) and it does not install a desktop shortcut, that's quite unusual

Click to expand...

Installs should never put shortcuts on your desktop without asking you in my opinion.