Home etched protoboard

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Jakob2803

Senior Member
A couple of weeks ago I tried etching some boards using the toner transfer method. Transfering toner went okay and etching went fine. I waited for about a week before soldering and I think this might have made the copper corode, parts of the traces had a bluish tint when viewed under a light at an angle. The solder did have some trouble sticking but it worked out in the end! Also I forgot to link ground from the power supply and the programming cable so this was done afterwards.
PE1 (Small).jpgPE2 (Small).jpg
 
J

Jakob2803

Senior Member
And some actual pictures:








By the way, what is that shiny looking stuff around the solder joints? Board melting or flux from the solder?
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
Flux definately ;) The "corrosion" was the copper reacting to the atmosphere and is natural. A scrub with wire wool would have cleaned it up fine. - Welcome to the woderfull world of DIY circuit boards!
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Yes, I agree; a clean up before soldering is a must.

Then you wouldn't have to dob so much solder all over the place - which results in the 4 gallons of flux residue you have ;) (The "shiny" stuff).
A good soldering iron would allow you to do quick soldering which will also help.
Cleanliness and an appropriate soldering iron at the right temperature will really make a difference.
Flux cleaner and a brush is a good way to clean up afterwards. There are a dozen different varieties and all of them smell.

A good hacksaw and a little patience will give you some straight edges.
Don't worry, you'll get good with practice. Everyone's first board is less than perfect. Just keep at it.
Good luck. A good start.
 
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Jakob2803

Senior Member
Thanks! :) Yeah the edges were rough, I used some kind of shears I found in a toolbox, think they might be for sheet metal. About the copper corrosion, in this case I waited for about a week or so after etching until soldering, what should I do to stop the corrosion? I have some liquid flux that I could put on the traces before storing the boards? :)
And my soldering iron may not be good, but it sure is trusty! ;) It probably used to be a chisel tip but that was before my time. Now it has a kind of hole or indentation in the middle of the chisle tip, and that hole is the only area that isn't oxidized! :eek: I will take a picture later.
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
what should I do to stop the corrosion
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Simple... leave the toner on the board until you intend to use it, otherwise polish the copper with steel wool before you use the board.
 
bfgstew

bfgstew

Senior Member
File the soldering iron tip to a nice point, get it hot and melt some solder on it, then wipe it off with a damp rag or sponge. The tip will stay nice and clean and solder a lot more efficiently, keep using the damp rag / sponge every time you use the iron to solder.
 
premelec

premelec

Senior Member
Whoa! I've not used a copper tip iron for soldering electronics for decades - they're all iron plated now and filing will get you to copper but ruin the plating and the copper dissolves into the solder slowly so you'll have much shorter tip life - also just what sort of flux are you using [OP] ? It looks more like some etchant problem than flux but there are strange fluxes around. I usually use a chemical cleaning agent for the copper before etch - "Twinkle" 'Copper Brite' etc made for cookpot cleaning... doesn't scratch and does clean well.

The soldering iron 'hole' described could be a hole through iron plate where the iron is 'poisoned' from lack of care - it's dissolving the copper inside the plate. Likely time for a new tip - that's my tip :)
 
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Jakob2803

Senior Member
Premelec:
When I wrote hole I meant it ;) About a 1/16 of an inch indendation. Yeah but I cannot find the proper tip. I bought a small pack off of eBay but the "shanks" were too short.
I did not use separate flux, I used the Tech-supplies 35m solder roll, it has flux or rosin or something in it! ;) I do have some separate liquid flux but I do not use it. For cleaning the copper before ironing on the toner, I just used water and some scouring powder. Before soldering, I tried using some scouring powder to remove the corrosion but I hesitated as I was afraid of scrubbing through the copper layer (probably unlikely).

BFGStew: I tried filing the sides of it once but it corroded quickly, I might try to re-shape the tip though.
 
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Jakob2803

Senior Member
The hole is not visible because it is filled with some old solder:
P1110710 (Small).JPGP1110711 (Small).JPG


Looks like some kind of prison shiv or something! ;)
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
I second Antex as a choice - I have one plus a Weller for heavier work. Many years ago, when I was a magazine editor, I got one of virtually every soldering iron available (for a review) and Antex/Weller were (and still are) the best! :D
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
The whole point of a good iron and tip is that when it wets it allows better conduction to the solder wire which melts more quickly and gets the flux doing it's job.
This, in turn, gets heat more quickly to the pad/leg and allows solder to flow and stick more quickly.

Result: a more rapid soldering action with less solder/flux used and, hopefully, less total heat getting to device.

The solder joint should then look more like a cone rather than the randomly shaped blobs shown in your photo.
We've all started off with Mr Blobby solder joints but please seriously consider a good quality iron and bit :)
You may strike lucky with a ting-tong iron but, after many tedious years of faffing, I wouldn't consider buying cheapo ever again.

Scouring powder? You should decontaminating the PCB and not putting unknown chemicals onto it.
If I have a grubby board I give it a quick rub with that green fibrous stuff then a rub with a clean rag and IPA.
I sometimes use a fine brass wire brush with care and then IPA.

Those little solder joints should take about 1 second per joint.
And yes , you will always get a certain amount of flux residue afterwards.

Get a good iron. Get a known make. Don't be tight.;)
It'll save time and could save a component and could save damaging a PCB (that you spent 2 hours making).
 
P

Paix

Senior Member
From time to time it is possible to caught out by a pinhole occurring in the face of an iron plated chisel tip. Normally the first you know about it is that the bit has been in use for some considerable time and suddenly the soldering action is not as it was. Weller magnetic temperature controlled iron circa 1974 and others since.

Being in a position without a spare at the time, it became apparent what the problem was when the plating caved in revealing that the copper had been eroded under the plating. It is possible to dress such a bit with a file and tinning it, before oxidation begins, but today the practice is to be frowned upon as symptomatic of bad forward planning.

However, it can save the day if you don't have a spare tip handy at the time.

The soldering irons that I have used in my time were a Henley Solon 25W, the TC Weller (model unknown) and Antex X25. The Henley Solon was state of the art standard military issue in the early 1960's but looked a little healthier than your specimen Jakob.

I second JimPerry in his findings re Antex and Weller, but come down on the side of Eclectic as Antex for economical hobby work. The bits and elements have been available for over 40 years and are a little smarter than a length of 1/4 inch copper rod :)
 
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Jakob2803

Senior Member
Dippy said:
The whole point of a good iron and tip is that when it wets it allows better conduction to the solder wire which melts more quickly and gets the flux doing it's job.
This, in turn, gets heat more quickly to the pad/leg and allows solder to flow and stick more quickly.

Result: a more rapid soldering action with less solder/flux used and, hopefully, less total heat getting to device.

The solder joint should then look more like a cone rather than the randomly shaped blobs shown in your photo.
We've all started off with Mr Blobby solder joints but please seriously consider a good quality iron and bit :)
You may strike lucky with a ting-tong iron but, after many tedious years of faffing, I wouldn't consider buying cheapo ever again.

Scouring powder? You should decontaminating the PCB and not putting unknown chemicals onto it.
If I have a grubby board I give it a quick rub with that green fibrous stuff then a rub with a clean rag and IPA.
I sometimes use a fine brass wire brush with care and then IPA.

Those little solder joints should take about 1 second per joint.
And yes , you will always get a certain amount of flux residue afterwards.

Get a good iron. Get a known make. Don't be tight.;)
It'll save time and could save a component and could save damaging a PCB (that you spent 2 hours making).
Click to expand...
The ugly solder joints are because of corrosion, I make great solder joints with this iron on stripboard without using too much solder! ;) Well scouring powder can't be too bad, isn't it just some chalk or something? I would like a new iron but no money I am afraid ;) Would one with adjustable temperature be necessary? In school we used something like this Weller but the stand and control station were one unit: http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/WD1000-temperature-controlled-soldering-station-74034
 
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inglewoodpete

Senior Member
I wouldn't be without my adjustable temperature soldering iron. So handy these days when I could encounter the lead-based or lead-free solder.

On the subject of the corroded copper on newly-etched PCBs, you can use a spray-on or paint-on flux immediately after you remove the acid resisting coating from the PCB. The other thing is to keep your fingers off the copper once it is clean. Where I live, it does not normally tarnish for a few weeks if I keep the copper clean.
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
Jakob2803 said:
The ugly solder joints are because of corrosion, I make great solder joints with this iron on stripboard without using too much solder! ;) Well scouring powder can't be too bad, isn't it just some chalk or something? I would like a new iron but no money I am afraid ;) Would one with adjustable temperature be necessary? In school we used something like this Weller but the stand and control station were one unit: http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/WD1000-temperature-controlled-soldering-station-74034
Click to expand...
Scouring powder is NOT chalk - it's got bleach and all sorts of chemicals - hence the copper sulphate green corrosion. Acetone to clear off the resist and water to clean afterwards. My Weller has needed 1 new tip in 35-years! Temperature control station not really needed. :)
 
J

Jakob2803

Senior Member
JimPerry said:
Scouring powder is NOT chalk - it's got bleach and all sorts of chemicals - hence the copper sulphate green corrosion. Acetone to clear off the resist and water to clean afterwards. My Weller has needed 1 new tip in 35-years! Temperature control station not really needed. :)
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I used scouring powder because it was suggested in YouTube videos. It was supposed to roughen the board so the toner would stick better. Is it okay to use before transferring toner? There was no visible corrosion at that time, I transferred right after.
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Jakob, the term 'scouring powder' may just be a general term.
I guess there are a hundred different varieties.

'Scouring' actually originally meant 'cleaning' or 'polishing' in English , most people think it means 'abrading' using a Brillo Pad or sand-paper.


Just because it's on You-tube doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.
It could have been posted by some 15 year old schoolboy with 2 minutes Worldly experience.
If someone on YouTube told you to use T-Cut , would you?
Don't ALWAYS go for cheap'n'easy options.

You are after cleanliness.
Where needed this means a gentle (free of chemical) abrasive followed by a clean.
If you did use some chemical-laden scouring powder then a good solvent clean may remove the contamination.
A smelly solvent cleaner is often used.
(I use the word "smelly" so that some smart-ass doesn't remind us all that water is a solvent).
Acetone is very powerful, smelly and aggressive (and reputed to be quite harmful).
You can get 'proper' cleaners.
I tend to use IPA (not the beer) as it is gentle on plastics. Not to be sniffed of course.
AND it evaporates quickly meaning you can get down to business quickly.


PS. I have used the blocks as linked by Eclectic.
I found them very good, but still had to decon the PCB with IPA as a smig of gunge was left by the rubbery stuff.
 
P

Paix

Senior Member
I have to conclude Dippy that whilst scouring needs clarifying,l that you are confident that Jakob will now not mistake IPA, IsoPropyl Alcohol, with the beer, India Pale Ale.

The upshot being that drunk in enough quantity IPA, the beer, begins to taste like a drop of rubbery stuff . . . with apologies to any readers with a Yen for the orient. :)
Humour break over folks, back to work.
 
JimPerry

JimPerry

Senior Member
A virgin Antex bit in centre - very rare sight - I bought a fine tip to replace the supplied one, the ancient Weller is on the right :D
 

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Dippy

Moderator
Umm.... that's why I said "(not the beer)".
Having said that I'm that some of Hippy's home-brew IPA will do an equally good job! :)

Apparently he uses it for degreasing engine components, unblocking drains and as a prize at his local Pub Quiz (if he loses).


PS. Soldering looks a bit blobby Jim, I reckon you should clean your stripboards or get a Metcal :)
 
J

Jakob2803

Senior Member
After scouring with water, I rinsed the board off of course. And then it was clean! :eek: But what kind of contaminants could acetone remove?
 
J

Jakob2803

Senior Member
SteveT said:
The acetone removes the etch resist.
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I know, but Dippy wants me to use acetone before putting on the toner. :) I understand that it removes toner, I used it for that. :eek: Just wondering what it could remove from a board that was about to be transferred on.
 
D

Dippy

Moderator
Jakob2803 said:
I know, but Dippy wants me to use acetone before putting on the toner. :) I understand that it removes toner, I used it for that. :eek: Just wondering what it could remove from a board that was about to be transferred on.
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Eh? Did I? I don't think so.
The discussion related to cleaning the board prior to soldering if you recall.
 
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SAborn

Senior Member
Some cleaning chemicals (household) contain other products like wax and silicon etc, and its these elements that cause problems, not only with the toner transfer but also in etching where they can slow the etching or cause uneven etching, this is why i guess Dippy suggested to use acetone as a final pre cleaner, in practice most scouring products dont contain nasty residues and are not much more than a mild abrasive (like pumice) use to polish pots and pans or the bath.
As Dippy hinted why use chemical products when a little scrub with a abrasive like steelwool or the likes, works fine with water and no residue to be removed after.
 
J

John West

Senior Member
Jakob, I believe Dippy was more keen on Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol than Acetone. (Best to avoid acetone. It can kill very many brain cells and leave one a bit dense for the rest of one's life, which appears to have happened to me.)
If I have a grubby board I give it a quick rub with that green fibrous stuff...
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That sounds like 3M "Scotch-Brite" pads. They contain a very hard ceramic dust that really does the job without leaving a lot of difficult to remove residue. I use them to prep all my bds for the iron-on toner.

And while Metcal's are very nice soldering stations, and I hope to acquire one, they also cost more than most micro-controller hobbyists spend on their entire hobby, which may cause a few folks to reconsider their need. :)
 
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flyingnunrt

Senior Member
John West;(Best to avoid acetone. It can kill very many brain cells and leave one a bit dense for the rest of one's life said:
Mate, My missus uses a lot of it to remove her fingernail polish. That might explain a lot of things. lol.
Just kidding.
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C

CLUELESS1

Senior Member
Sorry to dig up an oldie.

Has anyone got an up to date July 2014 product number for a suitable/good Staples glossy paper product that works well for toner transfer. Cannot seem to find anything new referencing current paper types/recommendations. Thanks
 
C

CLUELESS1

Senior Member
Thanks Jim. I tried the conventional way with artwork on board (UV finger nail dryer) but with just 5 seconds of exposure it vanishes on developing, so I want to give the toner transfer a bash. Read lots of easy methods and bad methods all around papers used for toner transfer, but they are all old paper product references. Sick of Veroboard.!!
 
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UAX

New Member
Glossy magazine paper works just fine. You can cut it to the right size and put it in the printer, the text/pictures from the magazine won't transfer to your PCB, only the laser toner will.
 
C

CLUELESS1

Senior Member
Wife was out, excellent time. Ripped a page off the wants on TV magazine, cut to size, cleaned my board which once was photo sensitive coated but I developed it all off at the time UV method was failing. Used my laser printer, printed well on the glossy page. Cut/fitted to copper, got the iron out. I fought with it to stop steam coming out, pressed paper on for 4 minutes. Then soaked in warm water for 6-10 minutes, all paper removed, good image of toner left on copper. Put into ferric chloride, etched, perfect. So good to have a PCB in my hands at last. Goodbye Veroboard. All I need to find out now is how to remove toner, I thought nail varnish, but does not budge. Will read up, but thanks again for the help
 
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