Thanks Tony, trouble is as I said, Samsung support say my laser printer is not suitable for glossy photo paper, said id would possibly melt or transfer toner as smears over rollers and that would be the end. So now I will try to find the same paper as used for magazines but blank. I thought if you bought laser glossy paper it would work in all laser printers. Regards
PCBs
- Thread starter pscs
- Start date
Pongo
Senior Member
You were able to iron it and transfer the toner to a board?
im using a samsung ML-2165W laser printer and it works great, the paper itself is more similar to the glossy thin backing paper you would discard from an adhesive decal.
to date i have never had any issues what so ever from the paper/printer working together and its been getting on 2 years using this combo
this is what i use:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-New-A4-Sheets-Heat-Toner-Transfer-Paper-Yellow-for-DIY-PCB-Board-/271540629231?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f39152eef
as for the laminator i just looked for the best priced one i could find then spent some time googling around for mods to get the temp up and came across the resistor mod for it to up the heat setting cut off for 5mil setting.
the recommended laminator out here was ridiculously priced at over $200 so i went with the $30 TL901
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Thanks everyone. John, as Pongo says did you iron it and get toner onto the board okay. If it melted on my wife's iron I get shot, also does it not melt and stick on the copper board.
Thanks Tony, as looked at before, this laminator seems to be a popular item in America, all the Ebay UK site is full of United States sellers with fancy shipping costs. Those I have come accross in UK hold you to ransom. Will keep looking
Thanks Tony, as looked at before, this laminator seems to be a popular item in America, all the Ebay UK site is full of United States sellers with fancy shipping costs. Those I have come accross in UK hold you to ransom. Will keep looking
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Oh what a great day. Two weeks ago I grabbed a magazine, printed my artwork, ironed it on the copper, etched it, perfect.
Today, tried another 3 magazines, toner smugged all over page, rand several sheets normal paper until ran clear. Tried another magazine page, jammed again.This Samsung laser printer has been perfect to now, but after Samsung support saying glossy photo paper cannot be used wish I had not got it.
I tried putting artwork on transparancy, tried twice, but after using iron half toner went on copper, half left behind.
Now I read about print and peel method, do I risk that on my laser?
Today, tried another 3 magazines, toner smugged all over page, rand several sheets normal paper until ran clear. Tried another magazine page, jammed again.This Samsung laser printer has been perfect to now, but after Samsung support saying glossy photo paper cannot be used wish I had not got it.
I tried putting artwork on transparancy, tried twice, but after using iron half toner went on copper, half left behind.
Now I read about print and peel method, do I risk that on my laser?
Just removed labels from a sheet (Staples Labels) to use the greasy paper backing like so many suggestions on Google. But it's so thin, printer will screw it up or wreck my printer. Any other ideas out there. The stick and peel is £19.99 in Maplins with no gaurantee for every laser printer. Must have been a real fluke 2 weeks ago.
Im ever amazed how so many people can have problems and stuff up a so simple process of toner transfere.
I have used the waxy paper many times with little problems.
There can be problems with printing to it, but your problem of the paper too thin is a new one to me.
Sounds like a crap printer problem rather than a paper issue.
I had a Samsung laser printer that worked fine for me, till it run out of toner in one colour.
I have used the waxy paper many times with little problems.
There can be problems with printing to it, but your problem of the paper too thin is a new one to me.
Sounds like a crap printer problem rather than a paper issue.
I had a Samsung laser printer that worked fine for me, till it run out of toner in one colour.
The backing paper from the page of Staples labels is extremely thin and curls at the edges causing the printer to mis grab, and I had to open the printer to get it out. It's not a crap printer! was not cheap. I don't have any Avery product, maybe it's thicker. Who's label paper are you using?
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
I'm not the slightest bit surprised some have problems. I have made dozens of PCBs using the toner transfer method, but have had a steep learning curve to get a method that works with my printer. Initially I bought some of the very expensive blue transfer sheets, and these worked very well indeed in my old Epson laser printer. However, when I tried to use them in my new Samsung printer the film partially melted and wrapped itself around the drum, causing me to spend a couple of hours taking the printer apart and carefully cleaning it. Even after doing this the printer wouldn't print cleanly, even on paper, so I ended up buying a new (and very expensive) transfer unit.
I then tried using thin laser photo paper and after quite a few experiments with paper settings I can get pretty good results. I've tried using the backing from labels, but that just jams the printer up (thankfully without lasting damage). I've also tried the clear laser printer film method, but find it a bit hit and miss, although when it works well it is certainly better than the thin photo paper, and quicker.
The key I've found is finding the right setting in the printer. My old Epson only had a couple of choices, but the Samsung has well over a dozen different types of paper you can choose (not sizes, types). I've had to play around to get a setting which works well on thin photo paper, and can now produce a good result every time, but this is only after a fair bit of experimentation.
BTW, I just use an iron to transfer the toner to the very clean and degreased PCB. This works very well as long as you make sure that the paper doesn't move and that you press very hard all over the board. I've found a pad of kitchen roll under the board helps, together with a single sheet of kitchen roll over the top of the photo paper, to distribute the pressure from the iron more evenly. I also get better results if I allow the iron to heat the board for at least a minute, with me leaning hard on top of it to maintain a high pressure across the whole board.
Thanks Jeremy, appreciate the backup. I really thought I had lost my printer as everytime after a problem occured I ran plain paper though only to get a partial smugged image on the paper of part of the PC layout. I kept putting paper through until it cleared.
I am going to try another way, I am going to put my layout on transparancy sheet and go to Staples who say they can put onto glossy photo paper with laser print. It;s worth a try as long as the resolution is good enough and the toner will transfer Regards
I am going to try another way, I am going to put my layout on transparancy sheet and go to Staples who say they can put onto glossy photo paper with laser print. It;s worth a try as long as the resolution is good enough and the toner will transfer Regards
Jeremy Harris
Senior Member
FWIW, I use the thinnest, cheapest, Staples own brand laser photo paper, set the printer to "all black", choose the "glossy photo 131 - 175 g/m²" option and that works well with my Samsung CLP-670ND laser printer. I couldn't really get the photo paper to work at all well with my old Epson colour laser, no matter what I tried, but at least the expensive blue film stuff worked very well with it. I'm very, very reluctant to use the blue film stuff with the Samsung, as I really don't want to risk damaging the drum yet again.
I think there's a fair bit of variability with modern laser printers, the damned things have far too many settings for one thing!
I think there's a fair bit of variability with modern laser printers, the damned things have far too many settings for one thing!
No idea if it's relevant to your problem,
but the Mega site may help someone, somewhere, sometime.
(Which is what it's all about).
http://www.megauk.com/producing_a_pcb.php
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but the Mega site may help someone, somewhere, sometime.
(Which is what it's all about).
http://www.megauk.com/producing_a_pcb.php
e
e
Thanks Jeremy, I wish I had that setting on my Samsung ML-3710ND. Working with glossy photo paper never entered my mind when I bought it. I got it in Novemeber 2012, have used it so many times for printing, and still on same Toner (70% left) Never mind just hoping trip to Staples print shop will work.
Thanks eclectic, yes the company is a good one, bit expensive, but you get what you pay for. I tried using UV nail varnish dryer and RevEd PCB's, did a test strip up to 2 mins. However the Maplins developer just stripped my tracks in seconds, ending up with even half minute strip vanishing. So turned to Toner transfer. Got good result 2 weeks ago but today disasters. Tried many magazine pages, but many got jammed inside printer. I think the problem was because it was not laser paper. Given that up now as too expensive if the printer gets wrecked.
Thanks eclectic, yes the company is a good one, bit expensive, but you get what you pay for. I tried using UV nail varnish dryer and RevEd PCB's, did a test strip up to 2 mins. However the Maplins developer just stripped my tracks in seconds, ending up with even half minute strip vanishing. So turned to Toner transfer. Got good result 2 weeks ago but today disasters. Tried many magazine pages, but many got jammed inside printer. I think the problem was because it was not laser paper. Given that up now as too expensive if the printer gets wrecked.
cactusface
Senior Member
Hi All,
I am with Jeremy Harris, I do just the same thing and it works well enough for me, just use cheap GLOSSY photo paper, even stuff from the £ shop. I have however just got some of this from china via eBay, as I find getting the paper off the PCB, a real pain in the ? See:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251457003005?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648 This stuff seems to be a vinyl film, again just iron it on, then in COLD water to cool it down and it just peels off in one go.
I am also a Diptrace fan, good Schematic and PCB software especially for FREE? loads of libraries and you can make your own components and pattens and libraries too. Fairly easy to learn.. I too use FC for etching, as said it's cheap, but messy, Don't get it on your! anything really it stains for EVER! I have a Samsung ML1620 printer, they nearly all seem to be the same.... I just set it for fine, darker!!
Hope it helps.
Mel.
I am with Jeremy Harris, I do just the same thing and it works well enough for me, just use cheap GLOSSY photo paper, even stuff from the £ shop. I have however just got some of this from china via eBay, as I find getting the paper off the PCB, a real pain in the ? See:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251457003005?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648 This stuff seems to be a vinyl film, again just iron it on, then in COLD water to cool it down and it just peels off in one go.
I am also a Diptrace fan, good Schematic and PCB software especially for FREE? loads of libraries and you can make your own components and pattens and libraries too. Fairly easy to learn.. I too use FC for etching, as said it's cheap, but messy, Don't get it on your! anything really it stains for EVER! I have a Samsung ML1620 printer, they nearly all seem to be the same.... I just set it for fine, darker!!
Hope it helps.
Mel.
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At the start of this thread (back in 2012,) I advised that I liked and used FreePCB as a good, free, "uncrippled" CAD tool for PCB layout. While it's still as good as ever, a newer and even better supported program has become my favorite. It's called KiCAD, has many features, including wizards for calculating trace impedance and current handling capability. It does everything from schematic capture and Gerber files to 3-D views of what the populated board will look like.
There are no pop-ups, "gotchas" or any other garbage associated with it. It's a totally clean, open-source, collaborative program with no sneaky commercial intent, so there will be no future "gotchas" either, and is available in multiple languages for multiple OS platforms. Also, it is officially supported by a group within CERN and looks to me to be the future of free PCB design.
Its auto-routing is presently it's only real weakness that I can see, (certainly for anything I might design,) and I do expect that feature too will be improved on as time goes by. While no CAD program is perfect (at any price,) to me this one looks like it is, and will remain, the smart choice for the one to learn. A web search for it will lead you to much more info and a download site.
P.S. The official KiCAD site looks to be down right now, but it may be downloaded from other sites. Just watch out for little "add-ins" from other sites.
There are no pop-ups, "gotchas" or any other garbage associated with it. It's a totally clean, open-source, collaborative program with no sneaky commercial intent, so there will be no future "gotchas" either, and is available in multiple languages for multiple OS platforms. Also, it is officially supported by a group within CERN and looks to me to be the future of free PCB design.
Its auto-routing is presently it's only real weakness that I can see, (certainly for anything I might design,) and I do expect that feature too will be improved on as time goes by. While no CAD program is perfect (at any price,) to me this one looks like it is, and will remain, the smart choice for the one to learn. A web search for it will lead you to much more info and a download site.
P.S. The official KiCAD site looks to be down right now, but it may be downloaded from other sites. Just watch out for little "add-ins" from other sites.
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Did you try just flipping the paper over with the labels still on it to stiffen the paper?
the first time i used my ebay laser toner paper i ended up jamming my printer, thankfully i was able to get the "accordianed" paper out and the printer still works.
what i do now is print the board design onto a piece of standard A4 then i get my transfer paper and cut a piece a bit bigger than the overall design and then use some 6mm kapton tape to stick the transfer paper over the centred and printed pcb art and run it through again.
ive been doing it this way for some time now and it works great every time, the kapton tape has a high enough temperature tolerance that it can easily survive going through the printer and is easy enough to peel off without damaging the toner paper.
doing it this way i think my paper is going to last quite a while still, seeing as i bought 100 sheets lol and cutting 1 over sized piece for each different board makes just one sheet go a looooong way lol.
i had plenty of mishaps to start with but now doing it this way seems to be what works best for me and no paper/printer jams anymore.
tony
what i do now is print the board design onto a piece of standard A4 then i get my transfer paper and cut a piece a bit bigger than the overall design and then use some 6mm kapton tape to stick the transfer paper over the centred and printed pcb art and run it through again.
ive been doing it this way for some time now and it works great every time, the kapton tape has a high enough temperature tolerance that it can easily survive going through the printer and is easy enough to peel off without damaging the toner paper.
doing it this way i think my paper is going to last quite a while still, seeing as i bought 100 sheets lol and cutting 1 over sized piece for each different board makes just one sheet go a looooong way lol.
i had plenty of mishaps to start with but now doing it this way seems to be what works best for me and no paper/printer jams anymore.
tony
Hello Tony, thanks for the information, however can I just run over it. You first print your artwork on standard paper. You then attach transfer sheet and put it through the printer again. So what happens, does the toner from the A4 standard paper come off onto the transfer paper, or are you printing the artwork again but this time it prints on the transfer paper?
Thanks
EDIT Is this the Kapton Tape?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221316942318?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
Thanks
EDIT Is this the Kapton Tape?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221316942318?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
sorry yes, the first run through i just do to make sure everything looks good and positioned on the A4 and where to tape my bit of transfer paper to.
the second run through is printing the design again but this time on the positioned piece of release paper, its my weird method lol but its easier than using the whole transfer paper sheet which will once and again jam up lol.
tony
the second run through is printing the design again but this time on the positioned piece of release paper, its my weird method lol but its easier than using the whole transfer paper sheet which will once and again jam up lol.
tony
EDIT Is this the Kapton Tape?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221316942318?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108[/QUOTE]
yes thats the stuff, works great and less riskier than standard tape lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221316942318?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108[/QUOTE]
yes thats the stuff, works great and less riskier than standard tape lol
Thanks again Tony. I have some tranfer paper (yellow) on order from China, so I will try your method which should go through with paper. Also I like the idea of putting the A4 paper through first as you know where it will print. I think I might put fresh paper through on the second time in case the original toner melts again and goes somewhere. Best regards