Picaxe temperature at 64MHz
- Thread starter john2051
- Start date
mrburnette
Senior Member
john,
I'm running a 20X2 @ 64MHz in a socket on protoboard and also in circuit on solderless breadboard and i have not noticed any significant temperature rise. However I have the ability to measure to 0.02K with a small amount of setup effort and will try and provide actual numbers sometime this weekend.
-Ray
I'm running a 20X2 @ 64MHz in a socket on protoboard and also in circuit on solderless breadboard and i have not noticed any significant temperature rise. However I have the ability to measure to 0.02K with a small amount of setup effort and will try and provide actual numbers sometime this weekend.
-Ray
mrburnette
Senior Member
Temperature rise of 20X2 part at 64MHz
So, here are the test results. Conditions in my lab: Ambient temp 71.4F no fans or drafts created artificially. PICAXE20X2 in-circuit on stripboard made of 20oz copper. Tinned 20-pin socket utilized w/ PICAXE firmly pressed into socket. Triple-nested DO-LOOP running code to process PULSIN from a 700Hz external osc. composed of a 555PLL situated > 6" from the PICAXE. 2nd LOOP driving a serial LCD display at 9600 BAUD. 9V battery used with a 78L05 voltage regulator.
The temperature graph was made with this instrument which utilizes a PICAXE20X2 also... only fitting
http://www.picaxe.com/Project-Gallery/HEAT-A-PICAXE-20X2-Laser-Power-Meter/
Obviously, I had removed the Laser target to expose the sensor which was mounted in a rubberized 3rd-hand vice.
http://melexis.com/Prodmain.aspx?nID=615&
Original P-O-C code was written by P.H. Anderson:
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/mlx90614.html
Regards,
-Ray
So, here are the test results. Conditions in my lab: Ambient temp 71.4F no fans or drafts created artificially. PICAXE20X2 in-circuit on stripboard made of 20oz copper. Tinned 20-pin socket utilized w/ PICAXE firmly pressed into socket. Triple-nested DO-LOOP running code to process PULSIN from a 700Hz external osc. composed of a 555PLL situated > 6" from the PICAXE. 2nd LOOP driving a serial LCD display at 9600 BAUD. 9V battery used with a 78L05 voltage regulator.
The temperature graph was made with this instrument which utilizes a PICAXE20X2 also... only fitting
http://www.picaxe.com/Project-Gallery/HEAT-A-PICAXE-20X2-Laser-Power-Meter/
Obviously, I had removed the Laser target to expose the sensor which was mounted in a rubberized 3rd-hand vice.
http://melexis.com/Prodmain.aspx?nID=615&
Original P-O-C code was written by P.H. Anderson:
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/mlx90614.html
Regards,
-Ray
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Hi Ray, I'm absolutely amazed at the trouble youve gone to.
I really cant thank you enough, if by some chance further down the line
I can help you, be sure I will try.
Thanks to John West also.
These little chips are quite amazing. I thinka z80 of old running @64MHz would be self soldering!!
Thanks again,, regards john
I really cant thank you enough, if by some chance further down the line
I can help you, be sure I will try.
Thanks to John West also.
These little chips are quite amazing. I thinka z80 of old running @64MHz would be self soldering!!
Thanks again,, regards john
Indeed impressive, but the whole electronic industry has gone "green" these days-I'm from an era when the room lights would dim when a valve TV was switched on! In ~1973 555s could burn your finger if working too hard & I well recall power hog Z80 based computers (Sinclair Spectum ~1983 etc) that doubled as sandwich toasters. A party trick with ~1993 era 66 MHz Pentium CPUs involved water droplets fizzing away when the chip's top was contacted. The first laptops and cell phones (& even calculators for that matter!) were often considered as a new way to drain batteries.
Today's leading edge CPUs still run hot of course, but it's quite normal now for CPUs to draw only a fraction of past the W/GHz powers, and run at speeds almost orders of magnitude faster. The sweet spot is considered 1W (such as offered by Via), but Intel have recently demonstrated a postage stamp sized solar PV powered CPU running Windows.
Today's leading edge CPUs still run hot of course, but it's quite normal now for CPUs to draw only a fraction of past the W/GHz powers, and run at speeds almost orders of magnitude faster. The sweet spot is considered 1W (such as offered by Via), but Intel have recently demonstrated a postage stamp sized solar PV powered CPU running Windows.
mrburnette
Senior Member
John,
Fun experiment. Always glad to assist.
- Ray
Fun experiment. Always glad to assist.
- Ray
blimey - that's a lot of copper
For comparison, you really ought to repeat the experiment at 8, 16 and 32Mhz to see how those graphs compare
mrburnette
Senior Member
20 oz. is generally considered "heavy" and reserved for power-hungry PC board commercial construction. However, for protoboard and stripboard, it used to be rather common 10+ years ago. I had purchased bunches of this stuff back in the 90's.blimey - that's a lot of copper
For comparison, you really ought to repeat the experiment at 8, 16 and 32Mhz to see how those graphs compare
I agree that for a completely scientific analysis of heat rise and dissipation that running the test at every clock frequency would be the correct thing to do. And, had the temperature rise been higher than reported at the top-end, I probably would have done that, but with such a small rise in temperature and the rather long time to thermal stability, I lazily opted to not do that. Even more scientific would be to graph the +5V current on PIN #1 and monitor that through the entire temperature rise to answer part of John's original question regarding current delta. But setting up the old Tek and probes is a real pain and the software for my dual-channel PC scope does not play well with StampPlot Pro. on XPSP3.
On a tangent, if anyone is interested in Laser induced thermal rise of a blackbody, I did extensive amateur research on this last year and published the results here:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f42/h-e-t-light-coherent-64606.html which is published under my pseudonym (handle) for that forum.
To all: I'm sorry about publishing the results in F instead of C/K... I had the StampPlot Pro already running a macro that I wrote for laserpointerforums and simply forgot to disable that conversion. The IR thermometer actually outputs Celsius after the internal conversion from Kelvin.
- Ray
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I thought that 20oz might have been a typo for 2oz - but it does indeed exist
http://www.saturnelectronics.com/20ozheavycopper.htm
...that is thick
I think only one other graph is needed (if you have the time and inclination) - at say m8. Just to show whether even a slow speed PICAXE, starting at that same temp and running the same code, gets as hot (when measured to that accuracy)
...but I admit that OPs post just asked whether a 32Mhz/64Mhz PICAXE gets warm, rather than "does a 32Mhz/64Mhz PICAXE get warmer than, say a 8Mhz PICAXE"
http://www.saturnelectronics.com/20ozheavycopper.htm
...that is thick
I think only one other graph is needed (if you have the time and inclination) - at say m8. Just to show whether even a slow speed PICAXE, starting at that same temp and running the same code, gets as hot (when measured to that accuracy)
...but I admit that OPs post just asked whether a 32Mhz/64Mhz PICAXE gets warm, rather than "does a 32Mhz/64Mhz PICAXE get warmer than, say a 8Mhz PICAXE"
Ray, don't apologize for the display in degrees F. There are a number of us Yanks in the forum who still think in that format even though the scientific (and the rest of) the world is metric.
While I'm used to doing the conversions back and forth as necessary, still, after spending a 61 year lifetime living in "degrees F," they are the ones I truly "grok." Just as, after running many quarter mile, mile and 2 mile footraces, my legs "grok" those distances, so metric distances have to be converted into the distances my legs understand even though my mind can deal with metric distances without difficulty.
The changeover is occurring in the US, (my niece and nephews ran races measured in meters so that's what their legs understand,) but it has been an unnecessarily slow and therefore more painful and confusing change here, being forced into happening mostly by the scientific community.
While I'm used to doing the conversions back and forth as necessary, still, after spending a 61 year lifetime living in "degrees F," they are the ones I truly "grok." Just as, after running many quarter mile, mile and 2 mile footraces, my legs "grok" those distances, so metric distances have to be converted into the distances my legs understand even though my mind can deal with metric distances without difficulty.
The changeover is occurring in the US, (my niece and nephews ran races measured in meters so that's what their legs understand,) but it has been an unnecessarily slow and therefore more painful and confusing change here, being forced into happening mostly by the scientific community.
inglewoodpete
Senior Member
When I was a boy of about 10, my father asked me how big half an acre was. A bit open ended for a 10 year old. His answer was that he couldn't tell me because it was 2 rood.
I can still handle degrees F (don't ask me to spell it!), spans, cubits, links and chains but metric is so much easier.
I think Stan has been trawling Internet for that info.
"Today only the USA, Liberia and Myanmar still use the old English Imperial system. The rest of the world is metric. "
Internet says it so it must be true
A friend of mine is currently working in Liberia so I'll ask him about his ruler, calibre and fuel tank
"Today only the USA, Liberia and Myanmar still use the old English Imperial system. The rest of the world is metric. "
Internet says it so it must be true
A friend of mine is currently working in Liberia so I'll ask him about his ruler, calibre and fuel tank
Dippy: No "trawling" there old bean but general knowledge in my line of work. FWIW I was raised to the full wrath of the Imperial system & in my 20s before NZ went metric,although earlier scientific training had naturally exposed me to SI. The metric take up here was amazingly rapid,and near univerasl within just a couple of years. Even old chippy builders ceased calling timbers "two-be-fours" & settled on 50x100 (mm)- about the only time one still encounters imperial measures now is when renovating in fact. Most Kiwis under 40 wouldn't have a clue now what a gallon,inch or yard was, and electronics students are often incredulous about the origins of 1/10th inch (2.54mm) DIP pin spacing!
I still recall an amusing change over ~1971 when a town hall time/temp display went metric- the tech. crew put in some hi-jinks and showed such bizarre figures as 155 and -46 before they settled on realistic Celsius ones.
I still recall an amusing change over ~1971 when a town hall time/temp display went metric- the tech. crew put in some hi-jinks and showed such bizarre figures as 155 and -46 before they settled on realistic Celsius ones.
Meanwhile, back in confusing Blighty
http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/03/imperial-confusion-on-new-tunnel-signs/
scroll down for the photo's
e
http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/03/imperial-confusion-on-new-tunnel-signs/
scroll down for the photo's
e
Amusing & sad - although banning lorries over 33 inches may make sense to Luddites. It's tempting to mention such colourful versions as ½ lavatory = 1 demijohn, and 1 milliHelen = beauty required to launch a single ship -as an educator I've enlightened lessons with similar teases.
Given the EU proximity, UK's continued imperial/metric culture is indeed crazy, but it's certainly good for a laugh when visiting to see the resulting "fruit salad" measurement mix ups. At least in the USA they still stick essentially to Imperial .
Useful knowledge for jetsetters & RTW pilots - aircraft altitudes are expressed in feet throughout the world, but China, Mongolia, and former Soviet states use meters. Stan.
Given the EU proximity, UK's continued imperial/metric culture is indeed crazy, but it's certainly good for a laugh when visiting to see the resulting "fruit salad" measurement mix ups. At least in the USA they still stick essentially to Imperial .
Useful knowledge for jetsetters & RTW pilots - aircraft altitudes are expressed in feet throughout the world, but China, Mongolia, and former Soviet states use meters. Stan.
mrburnette
Senior Member
... actually, if one observes the pictures carefully, one may notice that the fonts being used for the measurements are all-over-the-place... which begs the question if the error was caused by software after the cut-n-paste of the truck graphic? From experience, MS PowerPoint has screwed me many times with pseudo-intelligent font resizing and other weird behavior.
- Ray
