connect picaxe / computer / internet - budget solution ?

am a newbee working with mac soft- and hardware
& i spent a a lot of time looking for the following:

------------------------------------
i would like to ...

- transfer in- output data from simple components
(such as a IR LED used for light/dark detection )

- .... via picaxe

- ... to windows and mac computers

in order to ....

- pass them on to a website
or eMail them

------------------------------------
i already had a look at ...

- arduino/processing configurations
(e.g. some amazing "twitter" variants
posted on makezine, hack-a-day, etc. ... )

- additional external server projects
(as on this site
- e.g. very impressive webcams
driven by websites and controlled by 'site users ...)

- Nordic RF, Cellular, Zigbee, Bluetooth, XBee
WiFi, FM Transmitter and Receiver, General TX/RX
sending/receiving configurations
(btw. - there is a very interesting comparison
of these on sparkfun --->
http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/128 )

- very elaborate software solutions
(using combinations of php, processing, python
and other scripts)

all of them being highly impressive
and, most important of course: working well

------------------------------------
but -
is there any quite easy-to-configure
and budget way ...

which does not require ...

- additional, external servers

- platform specific software
(windows/mac/linux only)

- the implementation of several software packages


and runs with e.g. ...

- a 08M2 picaxe (or larger)....

- probably cheap component(s)
(such as a Nordic RF component mentioned on sparkfun)

- a minimum of software requirements

- a software/software component which is easy to install
and configure (Visual Basic Macros doesn't seem to run
once i created them via word on my mac)

?


any hints are highly appreciated ...

The easiest to use that I have seen is the SimpleLan module--direct picaxe to internet. I used a 28x1, but probably even a 08M2 would work now, tho you really need hserin to do two-way interactions. Cost was $29 U.S. Unfortunately, the module is no longer sold by the creator, and may not be available anywhere. If you wanted to find out if it is still available, you might try www.avcomtec.com.

I was using it 3 and a half years ago, and would have been certain that something as easy and inexpensive would have been available now, but I have not seen that it is. Absent that, my current preference is for a little Linux box (Asus wl520gu or Dockstar if you can find one) running openWrt (or Debian) with a usb serial connection to the picaxe. There is a pretty big step up in complexity to use a Linux system--but there's a lot you can do with it. Search the forum on "openbridge" to see another idea which steliosm developed.

thanks a lot for your fast reply and helpful hint!
googling for availability i found a company named "toboc"
http://www.toboc.com/Simplelan/521062-27389-BusinessService-TradeLead.aspx
&
(as for me being not into server coding and linux scripts)
am still afraid of start coding around with servers -
saying that i might not be able to jump this step
+ your little Linux box hint sounds promising
besides:
i might try a prefabricated solution such as www.thingspeak.com
but:
just started to read about it and didn't find a hint on how to
connect/read the dignals from the picaxe outside my computer ...
... oh dear - all this has a tremendously high learning curve

thanks, again!

I'm not sure that the page on toboc is not just a copy of a 3-year-old ad from avcomtec. That is the module, but there doesn't seem to be a way to buy it. I'd look up the contacts at avcomtec.com and call to check on availability. Their site has not referred to the SimpleLan module for several years.

Thingspeak seems just to be software to display the inputs from devices--you still have to come up with the hardware (e.g., arduino + ethernet shield).

The Sparkfun guide that you mention is a good read, but it is specifically about wireless--not about getting your sensor data into a PC or onto the internet.

RevEd's contributon, the Net Server board, would do what you need, but is, to my mind, expensive. Maybe RevEd could pick up the SimpleLan line (hint, hint).

The technique of going to a little Linux device via serial will work on a larger computer--Mac or PC. I don't generally like to have one always on and always monitoring little sensors.

You're right, there is a big learning curve, and considering that the problem was solved (in one fashion), 3 and a half years ago, and fairly inexpensively, it's a shame that no comparable solutions now exist.

Let me quote from hippy in his pre-Rev-Ed phase from this thread in December, 2007: http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?7567

"One day, in our perfect world, Rev-Ed will sell a simple and cheap box of tricks with an RJ45 or WiFi aerial at one end and a simple to-PICAXE connector at the other and offer UdpSetup, UdpIn and UdpOut commands and this will all be so easy to do we'll wonder what the fuss was ever about."

Well, it's an imperfect world, and we don't have that. It's still on my wishlist.

I haven't tried it out personally, but the WIZnet modules have been "Picaxified" before. Like I said, never used them so I don't know the ups and downs of these modules, but I am wanting to somehow connect at least a weather station to the internet and I have more time than money. I'd mostly want to connect to Pachube and maybe set up a simple webpage. Anyways, do any of the "experts" have anything to say about the WIZnet modules (aside from the fact that they'd be time consuming)?

This previous thread may also be of interest.

First of all -
thanks a lot for all of your really helpful links
and replies ... i appreciate !


--- toboc offer, WIZNET

true, true.... it's not an offer, it's a forwarded link

but, eventhough all of my & other people's research should teach me better:
i am still dreaming of a "10$-max-solution",
hoped i might find more information on Nordic's nRF24L01 / picaxe.

--- Thingspeak

yes, unfortunately ... just the software;
i came across Thingspeak looking at http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=11156
which illustrates a breadboard with an arduino module being described as an entry for a contest.
but, again - i did not find any further links via Thingspeak or on how to wire/connect a picaxe


--- ...

i agree - and since i am new to this topic, not experienced enough to add any more helpful
or in-depth-knowledge comments:
i wonder why there still isn't any "out-of-the-box", cheap(er) solution
assuming that (in theory) components and software are available to provide it.

Will put this on my christmas wishlist for RevEd

lbenson said:

Let me quote from hippy in his pre-Rev-Ed phase from this thread in December, 2007: http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?7567

"One day, in our perfect world, Rev-Ed will sell a simple and cheap box of tricks with an RJ45 or WiFi aerial at one end and a simple to-PICAXE connector at the other and offer UdpSetup, UdpIn and UdpOut commands and this will all be so easy to do we'll wonder what the fuss was ever about."

Well, it's an imperfect world, and we don't have that. It's still on my wishlist.

Click to expand...

But also from the same post ...

This also breaks away from the accepted view that access to, and information from, a PICAXE ( or other embedded device ) has to be via a Web Browser (HTTP) interface. It gets back to the simpler notion of data packets moving around the world.

Click to expand...

And that's really the problem; it would put a PICAXE on a LAN easily but doesn't help in getting data into a human usable format. You would still need some software running a PC or server which can pull in that data and turn it into information for a web page, make it an email, or update a Twitter feed etc.

There's a big divide between a PC running a web browser on a desk and a PICAXE sat next to it and that's where the challenge and complexity is.

How Difficult Can this Be ?

Couldn't agree more with these posts - I have been looking at various solutions for putting/getting data to/from the web and none are quite as easy as I am hoping for ! As Hippy says the 'solutions' often require an implied level of understanding whereas I am just looking for a 'magic bridge' box.

I have recently been following the 'Nanode' open source project which has got the right idea. This is Arduino based but I would much prefer PicAxe basic.

Also interesting is 'Hacking a Current Cost Bridge'

http://john.crouchley.com/blog/archives/722

... as for the conversion of the component-measurement-data into specific data
readable by humans:
probably "flash" could handle it
...
flash files can be converted into self-standing "players"
which are small programs for mac and windows ...
(similar to microsoft's "visual basic" macro-programs
but much more powerful)
to avoid the necessity of additional plugins.

there are flash solutions for server access via arduino
(http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Flash)

some of them require an additional program
("serialproxy" for mac versions)
which is in charge of the server connection process

yes - i'd definitely prefer a picaxe solution as well -
though i appreciate & like arduino -
it needs more components to create a stand-alone version
so it is more expensive with small projects.

Easiest, cheapest, quickest solution:

Go here: http://www.autohotkey.com/ , then read the quick tutorial, then download the free software, then search the Autohotkey forum and Wiki for the word 'serial', then write a small Autohotkey script to watch the com port and send an email, then send your trigger signal to the PC com port using the normal programming cable (SERTXD) from your 08M. Simple.

thanks a lot for the hint,

from my (mac) point of view there are a lot of helpful scripts
which surely help to find a windows based solution to evaluate inputs via com ports.

i had a look at ...

http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/search.php?mode=results

which reveals e.g.
Forum/ "Scripts & Functions"/"Serial ( COM ) Port Console Script"
which is a very elaborate thread including instructions
for a windows based system

being a mac user i might stick to a flash based solution
& create a win .exe + mac .app file from the .fla file
once i found a way to access my components data on the computer

Alternatively, you could bypass the need for com interface and just hack an old mouse. Send signals via Picaxe created mouse clicks. (I've tried it. Works perfectly). Or you could hack an old keyboard and solder directly to a couple of key contacts. Or hack a joystick. Or even just use a servo to press a key. Autohotkey is dead easy to use with mouse, joystick and keyboard stuff. Maybe you could get input from the sound card.

Lot's of 'cheap' options.

Boriz: That "hack a mouse" certainly could be cost effective! The Accton MR3201A Open Mesh mini-router serial hack is still very viable-Andrew Hornblow swears by them, although I personally found their need for web based config. rather a hassle. Even this can be got round by reflashing however. Stan.

MikeM100 said:

Couldn't agree more with these posts - I have been looking at various solutions for putting/getting data to/from the web and none are quite as easy as I am hoping for ! As Hippy says the 'solutions' often require an implied level of understanding whereas I am just looking for a 'magic bridge' box.

I have recently been following the 'Nanode' open source project which has got the right idea. This is Arduino based but I would much prefer PicAxe basic.

Also interesting is 'Hacking a Current Cost Bridge'

http://john.crouchley.com/blog/archives/722

Click to expand...

thanks - will look it up!

boriz said:

Alternatively, you could bypass the need for com interface and just hack an old mouse. Send signals via Picaxe created mouse clicks. (I've tried it. Works perfectly). Or you could hack an old keyboard and solder directly to a couple of key contacts. Or hack a joystick. Or even just use a servo to press a key. Autohotkey is dead easy to use with mouse, joystick and keyboard stuff. Maybe you could get input from the sound card.

Lot's of 'cheap' options.

Click to expand...

thanks, good idea! - am thinking about using this for an installation hence i would need a couple of connections -
will keep the idea in mind - got some old & broken computer accessoires which come in handy on that behalf ...

manuka said:

The Accton MR3201A Open Mesh mini-router serial hack is still very viable Stan.

Click to expand...

... true, true - need to get my head into this ....
besides, on behalf of how to send and receive the data from the picaxe:
http://letsmakerobots.com/node/28032
birdmun hinted me towards using "Key-fob" transmitters which sounds like a cost-saving variant

Boriz's mention "Or even just use a servo to press a key" reminds me of someone I once knew (20 years ago) who was tired of being logged out of his Digital AllinOne email when he left it unattended, that he made an automatic finger that hit a key just in time to prevent the timeout. I had to visit his office to discover why he had way more page faults than anyone else.

Kitty

more fun yet have a cat and random opening feeder on each side of the keyboard!

boriz said:

Alternatively, you could bypass the need for com interface and just hack an old mouse. Send signals via Picaxe created mouse clicks. (I've tried it. Works perfectly). Or you could hack an old keyboard and solder directly to a couple of key contacts. Or hack a joystick. Or even just use a servo to press a key. Autohotkey is dead easy to use with mouse, joystick and keyboard stuff. Maybe you could get input from the sound card.

Lot's of 'cheap' options.

Click to expand...

But all a lot of effort when the PICAXE supports serial and so does a PC/Mac, even if you do need a USB to serial cable.

I'm all in favour of 'novel solutions' but often it's like adding lead weights to a rock being pushed up-hill before finishing off with breakfast at Milliways

I think part of the reason there is not a SimpleLan alternative yet, is the costs.
Maintaining a software product so complex, with yet a simple interface in a product priced below 50$ is a lot of work.
If you opensource and let people solder it up them selves, its doable, but when you have all the hardware needed for a network enabled board, that can parse serial commands and convert them to variables that can be shown on a website, it could handle the rest of the tasks pretty easy.

I have made a project using a different kind of chip that uses parts for 30-40$ (depending on tax).
It contains a big mcu with lots of space, the network chip and logic level translation, terminals for 1-wire, analog and digital.
You can cut the costs to 20$, if you can live with 3V3 so maybe 22$ for a TTL compatible serial to ethernet board in parts, but it would only cater to people starting out with ethernet.
Once you are ready to work with the ethernet code, you could do everything needed in the chip (but it takes a lot more time and debug than picaxe).

Parts list for a simple uart controlled network box (that gets its regulated power from a picaxe connection).
MCU
1-2 xtals
Network chip
Magjack
Connector
A few resistors, capacitors and an inductor.
(logic converter and 3v3 regulator if not supplied from picaxe, and must be interfaced with 5v)

if built with a small 28pin dip chip, it could fit in a 5*5cm module, but I dont think the MCU could be a picaxe, it would complicate it a bit.
I could probaly be built on the same chip as 28x1, just with C instead of the picaxe basic.

being an absolute amateur trying to assemble the information i gathered so far
(without being able to test it yet -or at all-):

for a low range distance, wireless transfer of data
-
would a low-cost bluetooth or rf module
(similar to a "key-fob" introduced on
http://letsmakerobots.com/node/28012)

be able to ...

- connect to a computer's/smartphone's bluetooth port

which then could receive signals ...
(e.g. via a proxy server such as serproxy --->
http://www.lspace.nildram.co.uk/freeware.html
http://freshmeat.net/projects/serproxy/
+ example for embedding ...
http://www.roboter-teile.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=842
)

... and transfer them via php, javascript, email, websites
(http://www.iobridge.net/wiki/api/php-widget-control-api ,
http://www.iobridge.net/wiki/api/javascript-widget-control-api,
pachube,
thingspeak)
?

ok - i know - but who would be able to do all this?
it needs a humongeous technical knowledge ...

PcAx anothermarc said:

it needs a humongeous technical knowledge ...

Click to expand...

Indeed, and a wide range of technical knowledge across multiple fields which most individuals would not have. Can it be done ? Almost certainly. Once you get data from the target (PICAXE) onto a PC then you can do almost anything you want and probably in a number of different ways.

The questions are, starting from the top ( putting data into php, javascript, email, websites etc), is how does that data get to those and in what format must it be, and then, working backwards, what does a PICAXE and other links in the chain need to do to produce that data and in what format must those be ?

"Transfer via php, javascript, websites" is a pretty open-ended scenario so you'd need to define exactly what that means before working backwards. You'll probably find it's not php, javascripts or websites that are key but the servers behind them.

I think the reason off the shelf solutions don't exist is because it's not clear what is wanted or needed or the scope is too wide to be applicable for practical implementations, and everyone wants it for $10. SimpleLan seemed to be a potential success because it defined what it did and what needed to be done to do that ( and likewise for the PICAXE PNS, XPort etc ) but whether that gives what's wanted is a different matter. I have no idea why it is no longer produced or why no one has stepped in to fill the gap, but I suspect we're back to the start of the paragraph.

Take a look at the following thread, particularly from post #12 onwards -

http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?17217

That details my opening efforts to create a Windows Web Server which can serve pages and interact with a PICAXE via serial. From that you can show data from a PICAXE as text or even graphics, could probably use the PICAXE by getting those pages within another with PHP, Javascript or Flash.

While that's Windows, VB6 and Serial Port, it could easily be something else if you can find someone with the skills and willingness to implement it and can define exactly what it is that is wanted. There's no real technological obstacles in the way. I'd suggest looking at the SlimServer ( streaming audio ) architecture as a good way of going about things; a server per PICAXE which can send and receive data over serial, a central server which can interact with those and a set of servers which can handle client browsers and provide other functions. Each then has a very clearly defined role, simply asks another server for data or tells it what it wants doing and it's near infinitely extendible and can likely do anything you want; the key is in defining the interactions between each part.

Re: how to get from picaxe to pachube (for example)

This is what steliosm's openbridge specifically does, as implemented by me (with some false starts) and documented (to a degree) in this thread: http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?15907-OpenBridge-development

Openbridge uses a small device running the Linux openWrt system (WL-520gU, WL-500gPv2, Bifferboard, etc.) which is an intermediary between a picaxe (or other micro) and the net (inter-or intra-). It can perform email, web page serving, tweeting, pachube updating, and other functions. It's not clear that development is ongoing, but the system is functional and expandable.

It does require a knowledge of Linux, and a knowledge of the Lua language, so there is a learning curve.

It's not as easy to use as SimpleLan, but it is more flexible and powerful.

Someone posted that they had a picaxe talking to WIZNET, but made only that one post and didn't respond to a request that they provide code. I plan to look in to WIZNET again, but at first glance it was more complicated than SimpleLan.

thanks a lot, again ...

i just started to read through your win web server samples -
this is a good starting point for me
thinking about how to read and convert the data
once they arrive on my computer*.

and true ... a more clear refined/defined description
of what i would like to have definitely helps to find a solution on my behalf.

this is what i have on mind:

A:
light sensor <--------within ca. 5 meters radius----------> computer --------------> at specific ir value ----> email (or twitter) message
B:
light sensor <--------within ca. 5 meters radius----------> computer --------------> regular intervals -----> curve of values on e.g. pachube or/and thinspeak

desired interval of "data-grabbing"

A:
once the light sensor reaches a specific min./max. value, the computer sends a message
B:
the light sensor's values get tracked permanently at regular intervals (e.g. every 10 minutes ... if possible)
to create a graph to lllustrate the changes


physical connection (component/computer)

a wireless data transfer might be helpful
since
- the light sensor will be moved from time to time
- a cable in between sensor/computer
would be an obstacle (things are moved regularly in between sensor and computer)
- i might even not use a computer but send the data onto the net directly (using a server, router)

sending the data onto the computer/server

i might use an server on the the sensor to send the data
or send the data via rf onto the computer which then feeds a website/creates the eMail.

* i need to evaluate the data once they arrive on the computer
in order to send
- a message (incoming value's minimum/maximum (A) )
- values on a regular base (to create a curve on a website e.g. via pachube, thingspeak)

feeding a website and email (program or emulation) via server or computer,
a program or code implementation needs to receive the data and convert them into a message
and portions of data which can be fed into the website's curve
(*e.g. based on hippy's webserver example) ...

will have a look at the streaming server - might be the best solution anyway since it doesn't
require a computer to be running all the time (i remember it was mentioned b4)

lbenson said:

Re: how to get from picaxe to pachube (for example)
steliosm's openbridge

Click to expand...

you were faster posting your reply - might have rendered mine not really necessary
since stelios' openbridge seems to work and offer much more than what i am looking for ...

thanks for all your hints & annotations hippy & Ibenson!

lbenson said:

Re: how to get from picaxe to pachube (for example)

Click to expand...

Thanks, very interesting. I do have a basic knowledge of Linux and a project like that would give me a good excuse for a language like Lua .

I found another module that looks at least slightly promising. The TI Stellaris Serial-to-Ethernet Module. Fairly reasonably priced at $50 US, if it works well.

Saw this on Sparkfun today. It's being promted as a way to move a device communicating via Xbee to wi-fi, as it has the same footprint as Xbee.

RN-XV WiFly module, TTL UART to Wi-Fi, $35US + shipping http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10822

Don't know how this compares to the TI device.

John