Better than the current switching regulator or the linear regulator?
And I might damage the fuse!No, no, keep the 1Amp fuse in. Then when you break the DMM it'll force you to get something decent.
Serial Controller for KS0108B GLCD
- Thread starter nick12ab
- Start date
Linear regulator - of course I'm not going to use that again so I might as well remove it from the docking station completely"Better than the current switching regulator or the linear regulator?"
- shucks... both of course.
Switching regulator - It's a massive improvement over the linear regulator so I'll stay with the current ones until I need that extra efficiency.
I checked the cheap multimeter and it's only CAT II (and that could be only a marking too).
ADDED: I purchased the cheap multimeter for £5 from some electronics museum that I can't remember the name of
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From his profile I assume Nick is still at school so I can fully understand the possible budgetry limitations.
And a tight budget applies to many of us ... though some are tighter than others
But irrational penny-pinching sincerely worries me.
1. In normal cases there are reasons why something may be super-cheap.
a) Slave labour.
b) Cheap / sub-standard parts (including test-lead insulation and structure).
c) Poor design and/or not made to a good standard.
d) Not tested.
e) No warranty / support.
f) Retailer buys them so cheap that the few % who have the balls to complain can be sent a replacement and profit isn't knocked.
(Often the hassle/expense of returning a <£5 meter is too great - the retailer knows this!! The retailer is far more commercially savvy than the average punter , who strangely seems happy to keep these people in a decent lifestyle.)
2. Safety.
Something super-cheap may also be dangerous.
If you start piddling around with mains or big batteries and with no bl**dy fusing then you could be in trouble.
I am genuinely shocked (no pun) that a reputable dealer like Rapid are selling unfused DMMs as linked by Nick in post 195 . The structural quality must be terrible.
Surely your health/family/life/house/property is worth more than £10??
To People with dosh; stop being so damned tight!!
3. Quality.
Can you really trust a cheapo meter? People using them quote all sorts of results as though they are accurate.
I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
If you can't trust then it is useless.
4. Handling.
I , in a moment of madness, a few years back bought a cheapo as a throw-away back-up.
The response (update) time was so slow and wobbly that I went mad and threw it in the bin.
It was certainly throw-away ... after 2 days.
Christmas is coming up. I would strongly suggest that people send a letter to Santa for something of reasonable quality from a good supplier.
And a tight budget applies to many of us ... though some are tighter than others
But irrational penny-pinching sincerely worries me.
1. In normal cases there are reasons why something may be super-cheap.
a) Slave labour.
b) Cheap / sub-standard parts (including test-lead insulation and structure).
c) Poor design and/or not made to a good standard.
d) Not tested.
e) No warranty / support.
f) Retailer buys them so cheap that the few % who have the balls to complain can be sent a replacement and profit isn't knocked.
(Often the hassle/expense of returning a <£5 meter is too great - the retailer knows this!! The retailer is far more commercially savvy than the average punter , who strangely seems happy to keep these people in a decent lifestyle.)
2. Safety.
Something super-cheap may also be dangerous.
If you start piddling around with mains or big batteries and with no bl**dy fusing then you could be in trouble.
I am genuinely shocked (no pun) that a reputable dealer like Rapid are selling unfused DMMs as linked by Nick in post 195 . The structural quality must be terrible.
Surely your health/family/life/house/property is worth more than £10??
To People with dosh; stop being so damned tight!!
3. Quality.
Can you really trust a cheapo meter? People using them quote all sorts of results as though they are accurate.
I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
If you can't trust then it is useless.
4. Handling.
I , in a moment of madness, a few years back bought a cheapo as a throw-away back-up.
The response (update) time was so slow and wobbly that I went mad and threw it in the bin.
It was certainly throw-away ... after 2 days.
Christmas is coming up. I would strongly suggest that people send a letter to Santa for something of reasonable quality from a good supplier.
Picture of multimeter here:
![P100911_15.36_[01]_small.jpg](/data/attachments/7/7844-3b21b6706d6fc35a7bf06090f2d24910.jpg)
The text on the back extortionately claims that it can withstand up to 1600v but that is probably untrue. Next time I buy from Rapid I'm buying a decent multimeter with fuses on all current measuring channels. The 600v shown in the picture on Rapid's site is probably more truthful. I have previously used this multimeter to previously measure mains voltage without it blowing up but that is quite dangerous since the multimeter could still measure voltage whilst the fuse was blown so the fuse only protects for the mA measurement and nothing else.
P.S. I am still at school.
The text on the back extortionately claims that it can withstand up to 1600v but that is probably untrue. Next time I buy from Rapid I'm buying a decent multimeter with fuses on all current measuring channels. The 600v shown in the picture on Rapid's site is probably more truthful. I have previously used this multimeter to previously measure mains voltage without it blowing up but that is quite dangerous since the multimeter could still measure voltage whilst the fuse was blown so the fuse only protects for the mA measurement and nothing else.
P.S. I am still at school.
More Unfused Rapid Multimeters
I decided to check out some of the other multimeters in Rapid's range and the cheap entry level one wasn't the only one.
This one doesn't have a fuse on the 10A line: 5 in 1 Digital multimeter - nearly £40
This one's basically mine but with a big screen stuck on it: Digital Multimeter 19 Function
It will not only vapourise you but also your wallet: 20A Hand Held Digital Multimeter for £82
Another small unfused meter: Hand held palm size digital multimeter
MS8221 Series Autorange digital multimeter - £25
This list does show that even some expensive multimeters can be still unfused.
I decided to check out some of the other multimeters in Rapid's range and the cheap entry level one wasn't the only one.
This one doesn't have a fuse on the 10A line: 5 in 1 Digital multimeter - nearly £40
This one's basically mine but with a big screen stuck on it: Digital Multimeter 19 Function
It will not only vapourise you but also your wallet: 20A Hand Held Digital Multimeter for £82
Another small unfused meter: Hand held palm size digital multimeter
MS8221 Series Autorange digital multimeter - £25
This list does show that even some expensive multimeters can be still unfused.
westaust55
Moderator
The specs from the Rapid site indicate 600 Vrms - this is a typical sort of value. Clear indication that it is TRMS (True RMS is better)
That equates to 600 / 0.7071 = 848 V 0 V/Gnd/Neutral to peak ==> 2 x 848 = 1696 Vpp (Volts peak to peak)
A bit akin to the way some music systems state peak music power with something like 1,000 Watts supplied by say 6 D cell batteries whereas "real" power may be something like 5 or 10 Watts rms.
That equates to 600 / 0.7071 = 848 V 0 V/Gnd/Neutral to peak ==> 2 x 848 = 1696 Vpp (Volts peak to peak)
A bit akin to the way some music systems state peak music power with something like 1,000 Watts supplied by say 6 D cell batteries whereas "real" power may be something like 5 or 10 Watts rms.
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PLEASE, at least scan-read this thread
http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?15454-Choosing-a-Fluke-multimeter/page3&highlight=eevblog
Then watch the videos mentioned in posts #22 / #23.
I know it's difficult, cash-wise, when you're at school,
but at the VERY least,
only measure low-voltage.
Granny e
At least look at the videos re. quality of construction.
And, although you don't have any HV equipment,
for others,
thoughts often become deeds.
Or Deads.
e
westaust55
Moderator
No Dippy, I was suggesting the 1600 V mentioned as marked on the back of the DMM was akin to . . .
PRticularly if it did not clearly state is was a p-p rating.
PRticularly if it did not clearly state is was a p-p rating.
westaust55
Moderator
If I may use Nick12ab's post for a critique (with comments aimed at many) when writing/typing values, in accordance with the SI system and the ISO 1000 standard, the format for values should:
1. Have a space between the numerical portion and the units word/abbreviation
2. Use a capital letter where the unit is names after and an actual person.
Thus it would be 750 V a.c.
Units of time (seconds or s), mass (gram or g) and distance (metres or m). Are not named accter a person.
But Messers Volta, Ampere, Tesla, Hertz, Watt, Newton, etc had an influence on the discovery of many of the units used in the SI system.
Alternating and direct currrent are not named after folks so lower case and many standards such as IEC put a period after each such letter of abbreviation.
One interesting variation:
We have V , A and VA
But for reactive power by ISO 1000 it is var.
Here endeth the sermon for this Sunday.
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westaust55
Moderator
For those interested in the SI unit without access to ISO 1000 standard, have a read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units
westaust55
Moderator
Hi John,
Not to "can" your thoughts (yeah you have probably had that line a Billion times before), but if you look at the Wiki link there is a world map showing when various countries converted to the SI system and unfortunately the US is still a black hole
Yes there are spelling variances - e.g. metre versus meter
for many of "us" that is the difference between distance and an indicating device.
Even "Billion" is that 10^9 or 10^12
There will always be some difference (well at least in my life time) so we have to get use to that.
It is not that we do not understand what 750v is at the electrical electronic level but would be akin to someone writing your name as "john west" - readable but not the best form.
Not to "can" your thoughts (yeah you have probably had that line a Billion times before), but if you look at the Wiki link there is a world map showing when various countries converted to the SI system and unfortunately the US is still a black hole
Yes there are spelling variances - e.g. metre versus meter
for many of "us" that is the difference between distance and an indicating device.
Even "Billion" is that 10^9 or 10^12
There will always be some difference (well at least in my life time) so we have to get use to that.
It is not that we do not understand what 750v is at the electrical electronic level but would be akin to someone writing your name as "john west" - readable but not the best form.
Westy, aha, I see.
John, don't worry about it. The world is moving over to US spelling and US English.
Awesome.
But I'd be tempted to try and keep to SI which most people do.
As for specifications (and Forum posts) I'm a firm believer in disambiguification (US) and clarity(UK).
If adding a word or two in the right place means I don't have to ask another question or trawl through nerdynet or books then that is preferable.
An example is attached. Just adding one 'word' to this would INSTANTLY clarify it....
If you know your stuff then it's clear, if you don't remember it and Google it and pretend you do then that's also clear ... This explains Google power consumption when people ask questions on this Forum
(It's a DMM spec. by the way).
John, don't worry about it. The world is moving over to US spelling and US English.
Awesome.
But I'd be tempted to try and keep to SI which most people do.
As for specifications (and Forum posts) I'm a firm believer in disambiguification (US) and clarity(UK).
If adding a word or two in the right place means I don't have to ask another question or trawl through nerdynet or books then that is preferable.
An example is attached. Just adding one 'word' to this would INSTANTLY clarify it....
If you know your stuff then it's clear, if you don't remember it and Google it and pretend you do then that's also clear ... This explains Google power consumption when people ask questions on this Forum
(It's a DMM spec. by the way).
Attachments
Yes, it's from one of these cheap ones.
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uken/digital-multimeters/fluke-289.htm?PID=56061
No doubt some people will (claim to) know the ratings, but for those who don't (including me) ...
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/download/asset/1263690_6116_eng_h_w.pdf
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uken/digital-multimeters/fluke-289.htm?PID=56061
No doubt some people will (claim to) know the ratings, but for those who don't (including me) ...
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/download/asset/1263690_6116_eng_h_w.pdf
Wouldn't the arcing across contacts apply to most multimeters? And for fuses, if I get a multimeter without HRC fuses, can't I just swap them for HRC fuses?
1968neil
Senior Member
With regards to Post #5
The glcd used here has a slightly different config to some lcds.
Some require an invertor for a - supply to allow contrast adjustment, the module has this facility onboard.
However the GLCD i purchased from Sparkfun has it built in so pin 18 goes to one side of a 10k pot and the wiper to pin 3 the other side of the pot to ground. Otherwise the display simply does nothing.
The board and implementation works very well, however display refresh is slow-ish, for my uses this is ok.
I have noticed that the web site for this project is also down, if anybody would like a copy of the files for it i have them backed up.
Regards
Neil
The glcd used here has a slightly different config to some lcds.
Some require an invertor for a - supply to allow contrast adjustment, the module has this facility onboard.
However the GLCD i purchased from Sparkfun has it built in so pin 18 goes to one side of a 10k pot and the wiper to pin 3 the other side of the pot to ground. Otherwise the display simply does nothing.
The board and implementation works very well, however display refresh is slow-ish, for my uses this is ok.
I have noticed that the web site for this project is also down, if anybody would like a copy of the files for it i have them backed up.
Regards
Neil
@1968neil - GLCDs aren't as standardized as character LCDs so they won't all have the same pinout, however all GLCDs of same size with pins in the same position tend to have the same pinout. The one he uses is also smaller than the one I use.
@Svejk - Your website appears to no longer work.
@Svejk - Your website appears to no longer work.
After a re-read...
As now I know you actually built it can you tell me if the image storage onto the EEPROM using the mammoth-themed software works? Dippy has referenced the speed of GLCDs much earlier (shown below) but there's advantages - the text-to-screen speed of a PICAXE becomes a simple Power-Point style text custom animation and most importantly: it compensates for the rather slow scanning speed - if response speed was quicker then you'd be able to see 'ripples' running down the screen in fluorescent lighting.
@Dippy - you should design a PCB for your compiled non-PICAXE serial GLCD system and sell it as a competitor to that FDC thing sold in Techsupplies.
1968neil
Senior Member
Hi Nick,
Haven't tried the graphics software as yet, however it does work with the fonts if uploaded using the manager.
Will try it tonight and report back.
I built the board using the toner transfer method and found this a very satisfying excercise and obviously somewhat cheaper and quicker than a manafactured pcb. (subject to having the tools already)
All of the mounting holes lined up perfectly and makes a nice tidy unit, well done to Svejk for the work put in and for sharing at this level !
I drive mine from an 18M2, ill post the modified code to suit the 18M2 later this evening (UK Time).
At some point i will use mine along side the Tenda MP3 Module, should be interesting to see how well they work together as the Tenda Mp3 is a great but very fussy module. more on this in a later post.
Regards
Neil
@svejk : will you be producing a pcb for sale ? or maybe a kit ? i did leave an "interested in" request on your website but have heard nothin back.
Haven't tried the graphics software as yet, however it does work with the fonts if uploaded using the manager.
Will try it tonight and report back.
I built the board using the toner transfer method and found this a very satisfying excercise and obviously somewhat cheaper and quicker than a manafactured pcb. (subject to having the tools already)
All of the mounting holes lined up perfectly and makes a nice tidy unit, well done to Svejk for the work put in and for sharing at this level !
I drive mine from an 18M2, ill post the modified code to suit the 18M2 later this evening (UK Time).
At some point i will use mine along side the Tenda MP3 Module, should be interesting to see how well they work together as the Tenda Mp3 is a great but very fussy module. more on this in a later post.
Regards
Neil
@svejk : will you be producing a pcb for sale ? or maybe a kit ? i did leave an "interested in" request on your website but have heard nothin back.
1968neil
Senior Member
Hi Nick,
The image shown (pcb) on the website doesn't appear to be in the download section or in the download pack
However :
I created an image in paintshop pro in black and white 128 x 64 pixels with large text and the whole image as shown in the attached picture took approx 3 seconds to load.
Not too bad, the other software drawn images load much faster as does the text.
So it proves the GLCD manager works quite well.
The eprom upload takes its time but again not an issue really.
Hope this helps
Regards
Neil
Im happy with the outcome and credit where credit is due svejk's done a great job.
@Nick, with 28x2 in place the example takes about 2 seconds, picaxe isn't too fast. With a native pic it takes about a blink of eye.
@Neil: Thanks this is the first real feedback that I had in a year. I will make a pcb (i'm testing one design now) but it's still way to go.
@Neil: Thanks this is the first real feedback that I had in a year. I will make a pcb (i'm testing one design now) but it's still way to go.
@1968neil - thanks. So the mammoth-themed software does work and it must have been something I did wrong. The screen slowly filling with white when I tried it must be that chip image showing if it was working properly.
Looking at the downloads directory, there's no IC image but you could just use your own 64x64 image instead. Also there's this mystery program called 'weather.bas' which doesn't have any code in it.
@Svejk - the undrilled hole is in the bottom left corner of the image. Very crafty putting it there as most people would automatically look where the big cluster of holes are at the top, wouldn't they?
From the uncommented code, I think you're rotating the image for GLCD use when the image is used rather than in the GLCD eeManager which would be more efficient.
Looking at the downloads directory, there's no IC image but you could just use your own 64x64 image instead. Also there's this mystery program called 'weather.bas' which doesn't have any code in it.
@Svejk - the undrilled hole is in the bottom left corner of the image. Very crafty putting it there as most people would automatically look where the big cluster of holes are at the top, wouldn't they?
From the uncommented code, I think you're rotating the image for GLCD use when the image is used rather than in the GLCD eeManager which would be more efficient.
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Nick, I've spot the "undrilled hole" (if is not drilled then is not a hole) while I was making the website. It was like something bothering but one doesn't know what.
The eeManager just makes a image of the eeprom and displays it on the table. The bitmap images are prepared by eeManager, Picaxe just reads the data and displays it. It is the same for fonts (those are fixed size bitmaps).
The weather.bas it was meant to be another tutorial but I never get to make it, please ignore it.
To create your own images all you need to do is to make 1 bit depth color up to 128x64 pixel bitmaps (*.bmp) and import these with the eeManager. Windows Paint is more than able to do those.
PS: My son helped me with eeManager: the mammuth icons were found by him.
The eeManager just makes a image of the eeprom and displays it on the table. The bitmap images are prepared by eeManager, Picaxe just reads the data and displays it. It is the same for fonts (those are fixed size bitmaps).
The weather.bas it was meant to be another tutorial but I never get to make it, please ignore it.
To create your own images all you need to do is to make 1 bit depth color up to 128x64 pixel bitmaps (*.bmp) and import these with the eeManager. Windows Paint is more than able to do those.
PS: My son helped me with eeManager: the mammuth icons were found by him.
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I don't call it 'the mammoth-themed software' to be offensive but it is the most memorable and unique part of your application.
Obviously you spotted the undrilled hole yourself because otherwise you wouldn't be challenging others to find it but a challenge is pointless if you don't tell anyone else about your... "massive success" (sarcasm) in finding the hole.
Single chip solution
Here is a quick solution for those who want to build GLCD projects using my driving code but using only one PICAXE in total too. It doesn't allow programs as big as ones on an external PICAXE or as many free variables and also whenever the data is being processed it pauses the PICAXE program unlike the multichip solution. However it is suitable for smaller/simpler projects.Unused features can be cut out to free up program memory.
Apologies for you having to download it to see it - it is still far too big to fit in the post.
@administrator - can you please increase the file size limit for a .BAS file - I had to remove some comment lines in order to upload this.
Here is a quick solution for those who want to build GLCD projects using my driving code but using only one PICAXE in total too. It doesn't allow programs as big as ones on an external PICAXE or as many free variables and also whenever the data is being processed it pauses the PICAXE program unlike the multichip solution. However it is suitable for smaller/simpler projects.Unused features can be cut out to free up program memory.
Apologies for you having to download it to see it - it is still far too big to fit in the post.
@administrator - can you please increase the file size limit for a .BAS file - I had to remove some comment lines in order to upload this.