Bike secur

Jony_BC

Member
Hi there guys...

Recently my wife bought a motorbike but we dont leave in the best parts of the town and we have all that sh*t heads that do nothing besides try to take whats its not theres. Like every were else. And just a few days ago just like they try a lot of times make me stop to try to take my bike they did the same to my wife, I want to make a simple but efective protection for carjacking in this case bike. Just a simples comunication from somewere the coat or bag apart from the key so when the bikes gets lets say a meter away from the person. it trigers the alarme an in a 50 meters after it blocks the motor. and she is far away to run and they can not come back to get her and she can call the police or wait to go and get the bike... The problem is i think want to have comunications that spend power i want something like Rfid but i think the modules only go 10 cm right? i think thats not enough maybe a more powerfull one but its no to expensive? and were can i get it?

Sorry it was already talk about this subget before if soo then just redirect-me...

Thanks a lot
 

BeanieBots

Moderator
Even at just a few 10's of cm, the short range RFID type units would probably be OK if cut the fuel rather than the ignition.
A redirect valve to transfer from engine to flame-thrower:cool:
They'd be quite a few yards down the road before the engine stopped. You could also add a time delay to increase distance.
They'd probably have more to worry about by then to chase after your wife.
 

papaof2

Senior Member
There are luggage/laptop alarms that go off when the sender and receiver units are more than 30 feet or so apart. They usually have a bypass option so you can walk away when the item is in a safe place.

Add an electric fuel shutoff valve to the bike and use one of these units to control it. Tapping into the ignition is also possible, but gives an instant engine cutoff. With a fuel shutoff, the engine will sputter and die a little way up the road and it can't be restarted at that distance.

If you're not sure about how to install the electric fuel shutoff valve, talk to someone who is - you don't want gasoline dripping from an incorrectly installed valve.

John
 

Jony_BC

Member
Beniebots thats just a great idea. but i realy want to save something of the bike and then i will go to jail and all that sh*t i don´t know if its the same in your country but here the criminales steel a walk away and laught at the police and when some good citicien try to save is life and just by mistake break a neck or something like that they goo to jail but if its the other way nobody do nothing... i think that even a few mouthns ago some cop from the special force kill a guy to save the hostage and now he has the justice after him couse the other guy was brazilian and all and we are racist and all of that... you know...

oh well..
as i was saying i don´t want to do same with need a source of power just something like Rfid but with a half a meter range i know the right way to put all of that but since i will make a complet alarm system so i can cut the ignicion with some delay thats no problem. all already have all the protocol in my head just a litle problem is the control. cause she doesnt carry the wallet in the back pocket ike us if soo i can easily put the Rfid reader in the sit...

I realy want something with no baterys and small enough cause you know some ppl are a litle lazy in the morning and put the helmet the goves take all the lockers of the bike. and then been concern about the baterys. and its not like a remote control that just work in the start and the end to lock i has to be always refreshing...

Thanks for all the ideas guys... and sorry again for the big text and a ot of mistakes :p
 

BeanieBots

Moderator
Same in my country:mad:

You could consider something very simple. Not as "failsafe" as RFID, but just a simple "panic" button. Once pressed, the bike will be dissabled after X seconds. Does require remembering to press it in a 'situation' but would be very simple/cheap to implement.
 

Jony_BC

Member
Dam this world its realy messt up...

Yeah i know if i was my bike i just put a remote for a bomb and let them take the bike lol... But i realy want to make it as passive and automatic as it can be... i think There are some biger Rfid reader that can get the chip from some greater distance.. like the ones in the stores to trace the Rfid tags in the products... and by that it can also unlock and lock the alarm just by stading next to the bike just realy nice... if i can not find that maybe some syste that could work at least maybe half a year with the same baterys will work great...
 

hippy

Technical Support
Staff member
True story ... I spent a couple of hours after work building my car immobiliser only to find the car had been stolen during that time. That's irony :)

I'd break this anti-theft, anti-bikejacking system into separate components so it's easier to get to grips with, implement and works in practical terms - It would be a double-whammy disaster if a bike-jacking turned out to be a wallet theft, goodbye RFID and then the bike won't start and you have to push it home.

1) A mechanism to disable the bike if stolen. Rather than a push button to arm the system I'd consider a dead-man's handle which disables the bike if not activated regularly. Let's be honest, remembering to press the panic button is not necessarily the first thought in an actual panic. It also risks passing blame for the crime onto the victim if they forget which just exasperates a stressful situation.

That would need some thought though to be safe ( no engine cut-out on a corner at speed ), easy to keep operated and not easy for the thief to determine how to reset it to get going again.

The "I'd put a bomb in it and let them take it" sounds all well and good until it goes wrong; you, your wife or child forgets their RFID tag one day and kaboom - funeral time. People putting man-traps in their sheds and properties have learned hard lessons that way. On top of that it's probably illegal in most places.

That illegality may also extend even to fuel cut-off's. Even criminals are human beings and the law usually dictates a duty of care so you have to be very careful and should seek legal advice on such areas.

Don't forget it's not necessarily the thief you are harming. They may steal the bike without tripping the system and it's the poor innocent sucker who buys it later who falls victim to whatever it does by way of revenge.

2) An RFID or some scheme which works in conjunction and keeps the dead-man's handle operated when present.

3) An RFID or some scheme which detects the bike has been taken from where it should be.

Don't forget that RFID can fail, batteries go flat, you can lose your wallet and the bike may consider itself stolen when it isn't and you'll need to be able to deal with this. You don't want to hop on your bike forgetting your RFID and drive into the first tree when the engine cuts out.

This is a very life-critical system so I'd be very cautious in whatever I did.

Simply preventing theft is one thing ( a chain or U-lock works for most people ) but preventing bikejacking is much, much harder. You need to really ask yourself what the risk actually is and are you making things more dangerous than less so.

If bikejacking is that prevalent in your area I would expect that the local security industry have considered this social issue and may have solutions for it; they would be worth considering as an alternative to do it yourself schemes.

This is a project where how it stops theft is not the priority but where what can go wrong is. I've considered similar projects in the past but discounted them as creating more problems than they solve, but then I admit that I don't expect to be a frequent victim of carjacking.

Sod's Law dictates that whatever you do won't prevent what is done. If the bike is stolen by simply lifting it off your driveway onto a truck, by the time the RFID detects it has moved away, you get out of bed and look out the window you see it disappearing into the darkness at best. It may help the police get on the case earlier but it's just as likely I'd guess to give you nothing than a few more hours of cussing than if you'd found it gone in the morning.
 

BeanieBots

Moderator
There are of course products already on the market for just such a situation.
Look up "Tracker" as one example.
If the vehical/bike is moved without consent, the "Tracker" alerts the authorities and even tells them where it is.
A PICAXE could be used with a mobile phone and GPS to make your own version. You send a text to it "Where are you" and it would reply with coordinates. You could then either go and collect (with some friends) or let the police know and let them collect it for you.
Might also be useful if you simply want to know where the wife is shopping at any given time!
 

Jony_BC

Member
Hi there guys I was wondering wheres hippy thanks for all the advices. i didn´t want this to hapen. cause i fell that i have make you all loose some time cause i don´t put all my idea. i consider a lot of what you had say last start with faisafe.. i will put a simples button and with a combination of flashing a led we put a code and the simples is off and we just need too get the lockers out and the key in... other i want RFID soo it will not go out of baterys and my wife doesnt get to work late cause off me.. and then i will be in trouble lol... I already use two lockers one to lock the bike somehere solid and other to block the bike.

I know about the trucks that take the bikes i unfurtuly leave just a few meters away from guys that steel the same way... and i always been in schools in the midle of the projects and all.

And just to get realy idea of the security of here. the police the only think that they do its give trafic tickets... and only get criminales if they smal and not agressive ones. and the realt good cops... have to cary two guns not for failsafe. but to when its realy in the need to save someone or themselfe they shot the second and non register gun so they dont get arrested also... the private security only have auturity to carry a gun in a closed for public house and they canot use them also...basecly they can only wacth movies in the CCTV room nothing more... I work on Mercedes-Benz Portugal the national inporter and recently they stold five cars and a truck to break the door on the way out and i think they only get the two of them couse one run out of fuel and other crush... Just for you guys to get the simples idea that we cannot trust the police to help us couse ones don´t want and the others can´t.

The bomb part i was jocking hippy... I realy dont want to work that way. and dont like, I think that kiling ppl its not the best way... And they dont realy learn the lesson.. dont have time to... I prefer breaking some bones and a lot of pain... if i had a gun it wil be fil with rubber bulets... but here in portugal its the general idea the criminales are a litle more agreesive here and a kill more but thats cause they like a lot of knives and something realy turns out bad... and a lot off non portuguese criminales had the ways of their country brazilians dont have problem on shooting a gun... i´m talking a litle away of the subject and the whole forum but i think theres no problem... cause it all its around security...

About the failsafe again of the system. The part of making two system apart i realy agree. cause i always think i can made this its simples and nice. and then i can join a onboard computer, oh and then i can put a pic controling the aceralation of the bike and then that and i turn out doing nothing... lool soo its realy bether make it simples and smal and then joining all the parts after they are made...

I realy dont belive in panic button theire just good to find the car in the parking lot :p when their int the remote control...

Soo now the real system that i want to make...

And imobilizer that work always in a passive way...
Rfid tag for not use of baterys...
When we aprouch the bike it unlock one lock of the ignition..
but we still need the key... just as if it was not any imobilizer system..
if we forgot the tag or someone stole them they still have to get rid of the two fisical lockers plus the ignition and then direction locker...

it will be a simply led green or red to my wife know if the tag its been recognised or not. so she dont take the batery of the bike out and kick the bike cause she doesnt start. and if its red. she simply turn of the system manualy a 4 or 6 digit code.. using the same led and a buttun... the turn the ignition on the led turns red and then. she just press the key and the let blink 4 times and she takes the finger off the buton and theres the first digit. as 4 and this is used in a lot off cars at least a few years ago. i remenber the renault megane use that system when the remote control run out of baterys..
If the turn the ignition off an gets away of the bike the bike lock the the other lock of the ignition... if she gets away of the bike while the ignition its one. the bike runs for about and 10 or 15 seconds and then the red led start flashing i thinking of as buzzer so it hapens when shes driving so she can slow down before it cuts the ignition out... or dont cut right away first give it a litle warnings and she see the bike with some breaks and the stops... and of course as all my system and alarms. i put a backdoor. so it not gives more problems then the ones that it resolv... i always put some wire somewere that we just can cut it and all goes back to normal... i use this to test the system for about a good time... for the beta system if it doesn´t give a lot of problems take the backdoor out or not...

So i realy need you guys to telme what kind of RFID can i use... Can i get and half a meter or a meter range Rfid reader to a not selfpowered tag?

and yes beaniebots i also think of that i still working and learning about controling the mobilephone... not yet get there... and the system that i already made they are more expensive than the bike. lol i want to made one it will get a lot cheaper and i will learn a lot... thats one off the best ways of learning at least in my opinion the others its teaching but i´m realy not the best person to teach ccouse i have realy big problems on express my way of thinking... and put what i have in my head on the paper...so everybody can understand... thats way i realy write a lot a say litle of what i reay want to say...
i think you all get that idea by now :p

Oh well thanks all you guys have a nice end of weekend... monday is getting close :S:S:S
 

212

Senior Member
Just a thought that came to mind...it's pretty simple too. Some boats have a magnetic kill switch for the ignition. You have to stick something in it for the ignition to come on. The magnet is on a cord that you attach to yourself. When the magnet is removed, the ignition quits, this is so the boat will shut down if you get thrown out.
 

Jony_BC

Member
hi there 212 that just a great idea as it all to work... just as simple as that...

still my question keeps the range and what kind of equipment can i use if i want to use Rfid... ?
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
Some Renault cars have a device in the key, which means if you are less than four metres away and you try to open it, it unlocks and opens. The key takes a coin cell.

Andrew

EDIT: Google Hands-Free Renault Card
 
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Jony_BC

Member
yap... i find some long range Rfid but expensive... i think its no the best idea... i also remenber that system the Lexus work in the same or similiar way... and wen the baterys run out you just close the key nexto and Rfid reader i think and the car ins unlocket... i´ve seen that closed up in a lexus but how long does the Baterys last? what kind of transmiter does it use? what is the smalest and eat less power device??
 

Andrew Cowan

Senior Member
The batteries last about 3 years, as the power consumption is very low.

I don't think you will manage passive RF (no power supply in the tag). Active RF (power supply in the tag) should be possible, though.

Andrew
 
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